A Reasonable Ambition?

[Mikefule]

A few short weeks ago, I bought a Rochelle C/G Anglo. It has caught my imagination in a way that the melodeon never did, and I can see that over time I will want to upgrade to a better instrument. I am in the east midlands of England, I have limited funds, and limited time to be searching.

 

Concertinists seem a generous lot, and several people have let me have a "go" on their instruments - including Wheatstones, Jeffries and Lachenalls. It is immediately obvious how much nicer these instruments are to hold and to play.

 

However, all of the owners have spoken with a mixture of pride and despair about how much their instruments have cost them, with figures from around £1,500 - £4,000 being mentioned in hushed tones. I was solemnly assured last night that the old days when you could pick one up cheaply are long gone.

 

So my options in the medium term seem to be:

 

Upgrade to a Stagi or similar in the £500 price bracket - but I have read lots of adverse comment about Stagis.

 

Upgrade to something around £1,000, modern, with accordeon reeds. But ones with accordeon reeds are larger, bulkier, and the sound is different. I like the light weight and compact size of the "real" ones I have played.

 

Search around for an old one, but expect to pay well into 4 figures. This is a lot to spend, and there may be maintenance issues.

 

Order a handmade modern one which will arrive in four years, and cost as much as a small car.

 

There must be other options? If I had a few hundred pounds to spend, and a limited amount of time available to traipse around looking for one, and wanted a G/D anglo that is pleasant and responsive to play, what would be a reasonable ambition? Where to start looking? What sort of budget is meaningful? What is the threshhold below which they are all much of a muchness?

 

Thanks.

[Jim Besser]

Upgrade to something around £1,000, modern, with accordeon reeds. But ones with accordeon reeds are larger, bulkier, and the sound is different. I like the light weight and compact size of the "real" ones I have played.

 

Search around for an old one, but expect to pay well into 4 figures. This is a lot to spend, and there may be maintenance issues.

 

A dilemma, to be sure, but I think you're wrong on one point. Most of the modern hybrids, with accordion reeds, are no bigger than typical vintage instruments, and are much lighter.

 

My Morse Anglo is the same size as my restored vintage instrument. And it is by far the lightest instrument I've played.

 

The sound of the hybrids is getting closer to that of a "real" concertina, as well. As a player, I prefer the vintage sound, but listeners don't seem to hear any difference.

 

Remember, there's a HUGE difference in sound and size between something like a Morse, a Tedrow or an Edgley on one hand and a Stagi on the other.

[Samantha]

I haven't played either instrument but from what I've read on these pages I don't think a Stagi is an "upgrade" from a Rochelle - rather the reverse?

I would agree with Jim that modern, accordion reeded instruments are no larger or heavier than traditional built concertinas.

It might well be worth ringing Chris Algar (Barleycorn Concertinas), the concertina dealer, with an outline of your requirements and your budget. He is based not far from you and would be able to let you know what your options are.

Samantha

Edited February 4, 2007 by Samantha

[m3838]

I haven't played either instrument but from what I've read on these pages I don't think a Stagi is an "upgrade" from a Rochelle - rather the reverse?

I would agree with Jim that modern, accordion reeded instruments are no larger or heavier than traditional built concertinas.

It might well be worth ringing Chris Algar (Barleycorn Concertinas), the concertina dealer, with an outline of your requirements and your budget. He is based not far from you and would be able to let you know what your options are.

Samantha

 

So the car sellers, furniture sellers do take payment in installments.

What's wrong with concertina sellers? Haven't they heard about such a feature?

Hey, Button Box folks, Mr. Edgley, Chris Algar and others, did you buy your cars and homes for out of pocket cash, or you still walk everywhere, while paying for your car, untill the whole payment is made?

[Woody]

So the car sellers, furniture sellers do take payment in installments.

What's wrong with concertina sellers? Haven't they heard about such a feature?

Hey, Button Box folks, Mr. Edgley, Chris Algar and others, did you buy your cars and homes for out of pocket cash, or you still walk everywhere, while paying for your car, untill the whole payment is made?

Of course, certainly in the UK, when you pay in instalments it is normally at the expense of added interest. Most times when you go to a car dealer for a finance arrangement it costs more than just going out and getting a loan for the same amount at more competitive commercial rates before buying. When you buy a home, you don't normally buy it in installments from the seller, but once again you arrange your own finance with a commercial lender.

 

- W

[Dirge]

I don't think you should be put off buying an old instrument because of maintenance worries. I play the duet, and with them, really there's little option but to go straight to the antiques. You have to tie up a lot of money just to find out if you take to it. It was frightening initially but I'm now not in the slightest doubt that my instruments probably won't go wrong and if they do it'll be unlikely to be an expensive fix. (and I found out that I love the duet concertina) Concertinas are very mendable.

 

Furthermore antiques don't depreciate. Stagis do. (Do Rochelles?)

 

Perhaps pay a bit more and buy from someone who deals in them regularly and will help you out if you do get problems early on.

[jon melville]

Hi Mike - probably the only new instruments you'll find in the UK for less than the Brazilian National Debt would be Morse or Marcus. Both available through the Music Room, who do offer finance.

 

I've played both in English form, liked the Morse (although not as much as I like my Wheatstone) but felt the Marcus was stodgy, slow and quiet. Could have been an isolated example.

 

Some shops have Lachenals about in the £800-1200 range, I wouldn't know the condition of the Anglos but Hobgoblin list several. Chris Algar is a great source, although he can be a little patronising/condescending at times, and offers a guarantee that he will refund you the price of the instrument if you return it in as-sold condition.

 

I've played a couple of new Wheatstones which cost more than my last car, and they were lovely but I wouldn't want one - I'd never take it out or be able to put it down, having waited half a lifetime with it on order!

 

Good luck with the searching and I'll let you know if anything comes up.

 

By the way, the first time I made a major purchase on finance (a car) I gave up smoking and worked out how much I was spending. Having dedicated exactl the same amount to the hire purchase, I couldn't go back....

Edited February 4, 2007 by jon melville

[Mikefule]

By the way, the first time I made a major purchase on finance (a car) I gave up smoking and worked out how much I was spending. Having dedicated exactl the same amount to the hire purchase, I couldn't go back....

 

Hi, Jon,

 

So your advice is I should take up smoking, then give it up and spend the money I've saved on a concertina?

 

This whole concertina buying thing is quite an intimidating process. You can buy a good guitar, saxophone or trumpet for a few hundred quid knowing it will work; you can buy an excellent brand new melodeon for a thousand or so; but there is so much mystique around the concertina. From the outside, it's not so much an instrument as a weird cult.

 

The Rochelle does its job, and I am having a lot of fun with it. However, even I can tell the action is slow, and unfortunately I can't get to the bottom of a strange buzz every time I play one of the 3 low G notes on the right hand. Two are push and one is pull, so it isn't just the flap valve on one reed as I thought at first.

 

First lesson on Wednesday.

[Samantha]

So the car sellers, furniture sellers do take payment in installments.

What's wrong with concertina sellers? Haven't they heard about such a feature?

Hey, Button Box folks, Mr. Edgley, Chris Algar and others, did you buy your cars and homes for out of pocket cash, or you still walk everywhere, while paying for your car, untill the whole payment is made?

 

A loan from your bank will always be cheaper than any finance deal offered by a car dealer or [real] estate agent.

Samantha

[Ken_Coles]

Upgrade to something around £1,000, modern, with accordeon reeds. But ones with accordeon reeds are larger, bulkier, and the sound is different. I like the light weight and compact size of the "real" ones I have played.

 

If you haven't tried at least 3 or 4 makes of accordion-reeded instruments, I respectfully suggest you can't judge how well they would meet your needs. As noted by others, the Morse/Norman/Marcus/Edgley/Tedrow/Geuns-Wakker/Herringtons that I've seen are no bigger and are commonly less heavy. Having less than the budget for a very top-notch instrument means you will give something up to get a concertina in a lower price range. It could be speed of response (a typical Lachenal), a standard of tone that you may not have studied yet if you haven't tried what's out there (e.g. a Norman or a Geuns-Wakker) and may not even be apparent to a listener (concertinas are noted for sounding different to you than they do to an audience), and so on. At least in the U.K. you have a fighting chance of meeting many brands in a year of modest travels (by our standards of distance) to festivals and so on, so I encourage you to do as much of that as possible. This isn't an itch you can scratch in a few weeks; it ain't like trying guitars at the local music store. I went around trying modern boxes for four years (I was living in various empty parts of the U.S.) before I had a reasonably complete impression of what was out there and was able to consider what to buy. This was 1997-2001, when many of them were just appearing.

 

Good luck, in the mean time you can always practice. That is what I did.

[Leo]

As an added idea; why not put a little money aside every week/month in the bank while searching. Rather than pay the interest on a debt, then the interest will be paid to you for the use of your money until the required amount builds up. It will build up faster than paying a loan at an exorbitant rate. Especially if the decision on the particular instrument is months/years down the road. Look; Save; Decide; Choose Wisely

 

Thanks

Leo

Edited February 5, 2007 by Leo

[geoffwright]

Dont buy the first instrument that comes your way for under a grand. Carry on practising with the Rochelle until a box comes your way that really feels right for you. It may take a year until the right one appears, but it will be worth waiting.

 

BUT, as you are so near to Barleycorn, arrange to pop by and have a look at a good range of boxes. (I got both mine from there).

[fidjit]

Your local time tells me you're somewhere over the pond. I was going to suggest that you visit a workshop where they often have stalls with instruments on to try. There's one at Stowmarket, Suffolk, England. in March (30th) with the following. Wesson accordions, Thrift Music, Mike Acott Concertinas, Jollybox, Hedingham Fair, & Veteran Recordings. I recon there'd be a few to try out there. For me at least.

 

Chas

 

Ps. (edit) Ah just seen that my local time is the same as yours so it doesn't work that way.

My local time is Sweden 17.43 = Where ever 11.43.

 

Chas

Edited February 5, 2007 by fidjit

[Greg Jowaisas]

Mike,

 

Give us a notion of where you live in the world and we can make our suggestions as practical as possible.

(Whoops! I went back and read your initial posting...East midlands it is! In which case I would second the suggestion to be in touch with Chris Algar and hopefully schedule a visit when money and experience are on line. The suggestion of making the festival rounds is also excellent. You will run into many players and approaches and get to sample lots of different instruments. All of which will prepare you to make an educated decision.)

 

Saving money while being patient for the "right" box is very good advice.

 

In the meantime the Rochelle will serve you well as you practice in preparation for when your next concertina appears.

 

Greg

Edited February 5, 2007 by Greg Jowaisas

[CaryK]

I haven't played either instrument but from what I've read on these pages I don't think a Stagi is an "upgrade" from a Rochelle - rather the reverse?

 

Samantha

 

My experience with both is the opposite. IMHO the Rochelle has a better sound and hand straps, and a more traditionally built mechanism, but the action and responsiveness was about the same as my Stagi. Overall, I think the Stagi is much better built and uses better materials. . . .but that's one reason for the higher price of a Stagi. I sold my Rochelle recently and kept the Stagi I had. Rochelle is still a good starter instrument and fills a very useful niche for those not wanting to spend $500-$700 for a 30b new or used Stagi. Service for both the Rochelle and the Stagi has been excellent from Wim Wakker and The Button Box, respectively.

[Samantha]

I haven't played either instrument ...

Samantha

 

My experience with both is the opposite. IMHO the Rochelle has a better sound and hand straps, and a more traditionally built mechanism, but the action and responsiveness was about the same as my Stagi. Overall, I think the Stagi is much better built and uses better materials. . . .but that's one reason for the higher price of a Stagi. I sold my Rochelle recently and kept the Stagi I had. Rochelle is still a good starter instrument and fills a very useful niche for those not wanting to spend $500-$700 for a 30b new or used Stagi. Service for both the Rochelle and the Stagi has been excellent from Wim Wakker and The Button Box, respectively.

 

I'm more than happy to have my erroneous impressions corrected .

Samantha

[Theo]

I was going to suggest that you visit a workshop where they often have stalls with instruments on to try. There's one at Stowmarket, Suffolk, England. in March (30th) with the following. Wesson accordions, Thrift Music, Mike Acott Concertinas, Jollybox, Hedingham Fair, & Veteran Recordings. I recon there'd be a few to try out there. For me at least.

Chas

 

I'll have a stall there too! Booked late so missed the publicity

[geoffwright]

Having tried both, I prefer the buttons and action on the Rochelle - I have "test-driven" one 3 evenings in the band recently with no problems, but each to their own - different actions suit different players.