Playing For Rapper

[Jim Besser]

I don't aspire to do this on a regular basis, but I've had occasion to fill in when a local team needed some extra volume, and I was wondering about the best approach to playing concertina for rapper teams.

 

An experienced musician suggested that the dancers need to hear every single beat, and that it is unacceptable to leave out notes (these are VERY fast jigs, played at 160-170 beats).

 

But it also seems to me that the dancers would benefit from strong rhythmic accompaniment --some emphatic chording, for example, while streamlining the melody a little.

 

I'm looking for tips on playing concertina for rapper, aside from the most obvious one: dump the concertina and get a fiddle, since this is really fiddle music.

Edited October 30, 2006 by Jim Besser

[sidesqueeze]

I don't aspire to do this on a regular basis, but I've had occasion to fill in when a local team needed some extra volume, and I was wondering about the best approach to playing concertina for rapper teams.

 

An experienced musician suggested that the dancers need to hear every single beat, and that it is unacceptable to leave out notes (these are VERY fast jigs, played at 160-170 beats).

 

But it also seems to me that the dancers would benefit from strong rhythmic accompaniment --some emphatic chording, for example, while streamlining the melody a little.

 

I'm looking for tips on playing concertina for rapper, aside from the most obvious one: dump the concertina and get a fiddle, since this is really fiddle music.

 

Are there really any anglo players out there who can manage jigs at 160-170? Or is this a tempo for English concertinas?

[PeterT]

I don't aspire to do this on a regular basis, but I've had occasion to fill in when a local team needed some extra volume, and I was wondering about the best approach to playing concertina for rapper teams.

 

An experienced musician suggested that the dancers need to hear every single beat, and that it is unacceptable to leave out notes (these are VERY fast jigs, played at 160-170 beats).

 

But it also seems to me that the dancers would benefit from strong rhythmic accompaniment --some emphatic chording, for example, while streamlining the melody a little.

 

I'm looking for tips on playing concertina for rapper, aside from the most obvious one: dump the concertina and get a fiddle, since this is really fiddle music.

Hi Jim,

 

Here's some of the discussion points from earlier this year:

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...=3771&st=15

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Larry Stout]

I've played fiddle for rapper. In class they wanted jigs with all speeds between about 80 and 180. There is frequently stepping on each beat (i.e. some contact with shoe on ground on all 6 beats of 6/8) so I'd agree that all the notes are probably needed. They are all also likely to be even (so little if any lilt).

 

I'm not sure I've ever seen rapper danced to more than one musician. At any rate, if two or more are playing they need to be exactly together so the dancers get the music clearly.

 

I doubt that the speed of even the too fast sessions some of us complain about gets much above 132, so most players will need practice (on fiddle, anglo, or English) to get up to fast rapper speed. It is not really a natural speed for anything else!

[DavidFR]

I don't aspire to do this on a regular basis, but I've had occasion to fill in when a local team needed some extra volume, and I was wondering about the best approach to playing concertina for rapper teams.

 

An experienced musician suggested that the dancers need to hear every single beat, and that it is unacceptable to leave out notes (these are VERY fast jigs, played at 160-170 beats).

 

But it also seems to me that the dancers would benefit from strong rhythmic accompaniment --some emphatic chording, for example, while streamlining the melody a little.

 

I'm looking for tips on playing concertina for rapper, aside from the most obvious one: dump the concertina and get a fiddle, since this is really fiddle music.

I actually started playing concertina so I could play for my rapper team. Anglo actually works well for this; the key for getting up to speed (besides practice) is picking tunes that a) have long passages in a single direction and b ) have a couple notes in the opposite direction to fix your bellows. I'd suggest abandoning melody-right/chords-left style of playing when doing rapper stuff. It's difficult for us mere mortals to play that way at rapper speed. I've had the most success doing tunes in the Irish style with a little ornamentation and/or occasional chords where the melody crosses over from left to right and back.

 

As both a rapper player and a rapper dancer I strongly encourage you to do a tune where you are playing all the beats. Rythmic chords are not important; rythmic playing with greater emphasis on certain notes is. I'm trying to increase my repetoire but even this meets resistance from dancers - while rapper is always done to a jig, some jigs are easier than others. My efforts to introduce "Lark in the Morning" haven't gone over well.

 

Some jigs that work very well include Swallowtail, Ten Penny Bit, and the Blackthorn Stick. There are a couple more that I use which escape me at the moment. I got good marks for music at the '06 DERT, so I must be doing ok.

 

By the by, some people may consider them "fiddle" tunes, but the fiddles tended to get drowned out in the pubs where we competed. Not a problem with the concertina! And I know that the Ceilis are fast enough to handle the tempo.

 

Good luck!

-David

Edited October 30, 2006 by DavidFR

[Jim Besser]

I doubt that the speed of even the too fast sessions some of us complain about gets much above 132, so most players will need practice (on fiddle, anglo, or English) to get up to fast rapper speed. It is not really a natural speed for anything else!

 

That's an understatement.

 

I've played periodically with one group, but always with a fiddler. I guess I"m wondering how to do it more effectively; there's got to be more to it than holding on for dear life as the music careens along at the speed of light.

[Jim Besser]

As both a rapper player and a rapper dancer I strongly encourage you to do a tune where you are playing all the beats. Rythmic chords are not important; rythmic playing with greater emphasis on certain notes is. I'm trying to increase my repetoire but even this meets resistance from dancers - while rapper is always done to a jig, some jigs are easier than others. My efforts to introduce "Lark in the Morning" haven't gone over well.

 

Some jigs that work very well include Swallowtail, Ten Penny Bit, and the Blackthorn Stick. There are a couple more that I use which escape me at the moment. I got good marks for music at the '06 DERT, so I must be doing ok.

 

Thanks, that's useful information.

 

I've done Tenpenny Bit, Morrisons, swallowtail, Calliope House with rappers. I can do those at rapper speed, but there's no margin for error; I feel like, one hitch and the whole thing comes unglued. It does seem like the same 5 or 6 tunes get used over and over again.

 

Isn't there a tune that was written with rapper in mind that a lot of groups use?

[DavidFR]

Thanks, that's useful information.

 

I've done Tenpenny Bit, Morrisons, swallowtail, Calliope House with rappers. I can do those at rapper speed, but there's no margin for error; I feel like, one hitch and the whole thing comes unglued. It does seem like the same 5 or 6 tunes get used over and over again.

 

Isn't there a tune that was written with rapper in mind that a lot of groups use?

I can completely understand your pain. I've been playing for rapper since I started playing rapper and that still happens, mainly when something even slightly distracting occurs or your mind wanders. It's tough to recover at that speed; the warm-up dance at DERT was one of the most embarassing extended moments of my life.

 

I don't think there's one tune that was written with rapper in mind that lots of groups use, at least not for concertina. What I can and will do is provide you a more comprehensive list of what I've used, what I've got on a tape of old-time traditional rapper musicians, and the name of the tune that Tom Kruskal favors (if you want to PM me an address I can mail you a copy of that with chords, but good luck playing it at speed).

 

There just isn't much variety in this, and it's never easy playing consistently at that speed.

[David Barnert]

I played for Rapper throughout most of the 90's (on a Hayden Duet). I don't think there's much I can add to the conversation. I played two medleys for different dances. One was a full arrangement with chords on the left hand and melody on the right, and one was just melody. We had the sense that the different dances suggested the different approaches. As for

Are there really any anglo players out there who can manage jigs at 160-170? Or is this a tempo for English concertinas?

The tempo is for the dancers, and the tune is usually played on a fiddle. Concertina players just have to see if they can provide something appropriate.

[m3838]

15 years ago I was working in Charlotte NC and I worked long hours, so not to fall asleep, I listened to Rush Limbaugh and Rap Stations (lots in NC). At first they kept me quite awake, but after a short while I got enough. To this day I think that Rap/Hip-Hop is a symptom of cultural disaster for Black community in the USA, from which said community will have hard time to recover, if at all.

I am stunned that so many concertina players play for Rappers. Besides the speed, what's there to play?

My daughter is involved in Ballet and she performed in Dance Center in Vallejo, where besides their ballet number there was only Rap, where little children were wiggling and looking sexy. The music was the most disgusting, with sexual slur and lots of anger for the sake of anger.

A catastrophy. I watched many people defending rap, saying it can be positive, and good and not derogatory towards women, but since those speaches, some 10-5 years later, rap has just gotten worse.

[John Wild]

To this day I think that Rap/Hip-Hop is a symptom of cultural disaster for Black community in the USA, from which said community will have hard time to recover, if at all.

I am stunned that so many concertina players play for Rappers. Besides the speed, what's there to play?

 

I think this is another instance of the old saying 'two nations separated by a common language.'

 

Rapper in this case refers to a specific type of sword dance, most commonly for sides of 6 dancers, and originating (I believe?) in the North east of England, though I have no objection to anyone with greater knowledge posting a correction to that.

 

best wishes

 

John Wild

Edited October 31, 2006 by John Wild

[m3838]

To this day I think that Rap/Hip-Hop is a symptom of cultural disaster for Black community in the USA, from which said community will have hard time to recover, if at all.

I am stunned that so many concertina players play for Rappers. Besides the speed, what's there to play?

 

I think this is another instance of the old saying 'two nations separated by a common language.'

 

Rapper in this case refers to a specific type of sword dance, most commonly for sides of 6 dancers, and originating (I believe?) in the North east of England, though I have no objection to anyone with greater knowledge posting a correcion to that.

 

best wishes

 

John Wild

 

Oh, I see. Phew! By some reason I feel better.

Boy, I can't stop laughing.

No really, I should listen to some Rap station to come to my sences...

[Leo]

Oh, I see. Phew! By some reason I feel better.

Boy, I can't stop laughing.

No really, I should listen to some Rap station to come to my sences...

M3838

You're not the only one as I found out las July when I first heard the term. What a cultrual void. This is an interesting thread with videos that explained it to me. (Don't laugh at post #6 too hard). I too thought it originating in the states, but was pleasantly surprised to be misguided.

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...3&hl=rapper

Thanks

Leo

[Chris Timson]

Isn't there a tune that was written with rapper in mind that a lot of groups use?

I've never played for the rapper, but I used to dance it with the East Saxons back in my youth. A favourite tune then, and one I've found relatively easy to get at least close to the right speed in the privacy of my own home, is the English tune the New Rigged Ship.

 

Chris

[Theo]

Rapper in this case refers to a specific type of sword dance, most commonly for sides of 6 dancers, and originating (I believe?) in the North east of England, though I have no objection to anyone with greater knowledge posting a correction to that.

 

best wishes

 

John Wild

 

John, always 5 dancers for Rapper, plus Tommy and Betty, Longsword teams are 6.

 

Read all about it here Rapper.org

 

Friends of mine who have grown up in the Tyneside Irish community believe that the current form of rapper grew out of local traditions combined with Irish style playing. The Irish element came to the NE of England along with Irish migrants who came here to work in the pits (coal mines). Hence the fast Irish playing style, and most of the tunes too are Irish in origin.

[geoffwright]

Lass O'Dallogill, Tenpenny Bit and Oyster Girl and pretty regular favorites as well.

[Chris Timson]

Lass O'Dallogill, Tenpenny Bit and Oyster Girl and pretty regular favorites as well.

I always thought of Lass O'Dallogill and Oyster Girl as longsword tunes. Leastways I spent long hours playing those tunes at a steady marching tempo while the East Saxons wore circles in the carpet ...

 

Chris

[DavidFR]

Friends of mine who have grown up in the Tyneside Irish community believe that the current form of rapper grew out of local traditions combined with Irish style playing. The Irish element came to the NE of England along with Irish migrants who came here to work in the pits (coal mines). Hence the fast Irish playing style, and most of the tunes too are Irish in origin.

That's interesting. My understanding has always been that rapper developed in the coal mines of northern England, but have never heard of any Irish association with it whatsoever. In the decade or so I've been dancing I've always been told or it's been implied to be a thoroughly English tradition. Anyone know of any research to support either claim?

 

And yes, I've had some really interesting looks and questions when I've told people I do rapper dancing. The names are too similar!