Robin Madge Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 For the second occasion in 10 months I have had the problem of a rivited lever breaking through its bearing hole. Now I know that I use my G/D a lot but if you thnk I'm going to pit up with with this every 120 years your mistaken! Seriously though, in each case the lever arm has worn through the bottom of the hole because of the constant upward pressure from the springs. The bearing is a plain bearing with the rivet loose in both the arm and the post. There is also wear on the hole in the post and, of course, the rivet itself. What arrangement is best (and possible) to reduce wear. Rivit through a tube? PTFE spray? Robin Madge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP3 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I had a very pleasant, recent exchange of e-mails with Wim Wakker about this exact topic that may be helpful. You may be familiar that Wim came up with a different style post to use on his concertinas. It was round, had a slot in the middle, and the rivet hole went all the way through so that the rivet (or hinge pin might be a better descriptive choice) was supported on both sides of the arm. I thought Wim's design was very clever and simple so I was surprised to discover that he was not using it on his latest Wakker anglos. I inquired why and his reply was that: 1) people seemed to be questioning him on why he was not using the "traditional design" (emphasis added) but more importantly 2) With modern materials (a harder brass, if memory serves me correctly) and modern cutting techniques he was able to use a material that was stronger and would last longer. So from his response it appears that there are two ready answers to your question -- but both involve a serious refit to your concertina. The first would be to switch to Wim's round style support post. The second choice would be to replace all the posts and rivets in your concertina with the newer and stronger materials. I know of folks, myself included, who have had older instruments wear out an arm or two on a vintage Jeffries, Crabb or the like. On these C/G anglos I'm familiar with, most of the failures have been limited to the arms on the most used buttons -- G/A and D/E on the left and B/C plus F#/G on the right. So, depending on the amount of use an instrument has experienced in its life, there may only be a few arms that require the repairs described above. Good luck and happy squeezing, Ross Schlabach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hi on ebay there is a Joseph Scates with an action that sounds very similar, from the description, to the one that Wim Wakker was using. This Scates would pre date 1850 and is apparently similar to a Nickolds action . I'm not sure what constitutes traditional but I would have thought this fitted the bill chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 For the second occasion in 10 months I have had the problem of a rivited lever breaking through its bearing hole. Now I know that I use my G/D a lot but if you thnk I'm going to pit up with with this every 120 years your mistaken! Seriously though, in each case the lever arm has worn through the bottom of the hole because of the constant upward pressure from the springs. The bearing is a plain bearing with the rivet loose in both the arm and the post. There is also wear on the hole in the post and, of course, the rivet itself. What arrangement is best (and possible) to reduce wear. Rivit through a tube? PTFE spray? Robin Madge I believe there was a thread on this led by Dave Elliott about a month ago. This dealt with repairinf the worn rivet action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 My thread was about repairing a worn lachenal action, not a riveted one. I have never had to deal with a worn wheatstone action, I am not saying that they don't happen, but not apparently in South Yorkshire! Any chance of a picture so that we can see how bad is bad? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Madge Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 If I've done things correctly there should be a photo here. The arm is a very short one as it is the air button arm and as a result is under the most spring pressure, having two springs. You can also see a groove worn by the end of the spring. Having said that it is not the first arm to break in this fashion on the concertina. I have made a new arm and secured it to the post by a bolt (12BA?) so that I can adjust the stiffness of the attachment if required. I have put a drop of superglue on the nut to stop movement but a touch with the soldering iron would free it up if necessary. I'll see how that works for a bit. Future possibility would be to open up the hole through both post and arm and insert a short length of tubing with the bolt running through that with washers at both ends if there is enough space. Robin Madge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Madge Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Well the photo worked better than I expected and when viewed in high magnification showed up something I had not noticed before. At the pad end (right-hand end in photo) there is evidence of some sort of thread or grooving to help retain the pad on the end of the arm. Was this just a Wheatstone thing? Robin Madge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolm clapp Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Well the photo worked better than I expected and when viewed in high magnification showed up something I had not noticed before. At the pad end (right-hand end in photo) there is evidence of some sort of thread or grooving to help retain the pad on the end of the arm. Was this just a Wheatstone thing? Robin Madge Pretty standard on Lachenals and Jeffries too. Also Dipper. Not sure if all the hybrid makers are using it too. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) I have made a new arm and secured it to the post by a bolt (12BA?) so that I can adjust the stiffness of the attachment if required. I have put a drop of superglue on the nut to stop movement but a touch with the soldering iron would free it up if necessary. I'll see how that works for a bit. Future possibility would be to open up the hole through both post and arm and insert a short length of tubing with the bolt running through that with washers at both ends if there is enough space. Robin Madge Robin A further improvement would be to use a rivet rather than a bolt, You would have to pull the post out of the action board to get access. The smooth shank of a rivet will wear less than the threaded part of a bolt. Theo Edited March 28, 2006 by Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Madge Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 I may have yet another atempt at making a new arm before I'm happy with it. As the hole in the post has also enlarged I need a bigger hole in the arm to match it. I would then use a thin tube as a bearing, slightly loose fit in the holes, with the bolt running through the tube. I might even use the PTFE spray on the new parts first! Robin Madge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I might even use the PTFE spray on the new parts first! Won't the beneficial effects of that wear away in less than 100 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Madge Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Ah! but by using a bolt I can dismantle it and re-spray it, say every 50 years! Robin Madge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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