What To Choose Between C/g And G/d When Playing Irish Folk

[Larry Stout]

The first concertina I bought (in 1993 from my local muisic shop, which had to order it) was a new 20 button German anglo from VEB Klingenthaler Harmonikawerke with a brand name of Klingenthal. It is a model 401. I've since seen similar concertinas on eBay listed as Scholer, but this one does not have that name on it, only Klingenthal, and that name only on the brochure which came with the concertina, not on the concertina itself. I'm guessing that this particular concertina is of about the same quality as the cheapest of the Chineese boxes now available on eBay. I've never learned how to play it.

 

Larry

[Theo]

I'm guessing that this particular concertina is of about the same quality as the cheapest of the Chinese boxes now available on eBay.

 

I think that is unfair on the German makers. While their concertinas are not close to the build quality of a good Lachenal or Wheatstone, in my experience they are better than the Chinese. Most of the Chinese ones I've worked on are plagued with sticking buttons, the German ones have a different type of action where the button holes do not act as guides to the buttons, so they don't stick because of friction with the holes.

[Larry Stout]

Most of the Chinese ones I've worked on are plagued with sticking buttons, the German ones have a different type of action where the button holes do not act as guides to the buttons, so they don't stick because of friction with the holes.

 

I'll retract my comment-- I haven't played one of the Chineese boxes and I haven't had problems with the keys sticking on the German box. The concertina was in about the same price range as the Chineese boxes and I now play two Wheatstone ECs, not comparable in kind, quality, or price! The bellows on the Klingenthal are of a completely different construction. I'm not convinced by the tone or tuning of the reeds of the Klingenthal, but the real problem may be that I don't like playing an anglo so I haven't learned how to control it well enough.

 

The Stagi EC that I have uses an action that has the button holes act as guides to the buttons. This does produce some problems with allignment and minor, but noticable differences in the feel of buttons. The buttons on the Wheatstones have a better system. I haven't looked at the action on the Klingenthal. As far as I can tell the reeds are waxed to the back of the action plate which has the cover held on with what looks like two staples. I've been reluctant to disassemble something I'm unsure that I could get back together. Could you describe how the German action works?

 

Larry

[geoffwright]

From a practical point of playing Irish in a session, the C/G and G/D both have different timbres due to the difference in pitch. Granted, the G/D can be played higher to sound something like a C/G, but averaging out across the various tunes that would be played in session (especially on tunes with a large tessiatura - todays big word), I suspect a G/D could be discernable by expert ears.

When all said and done, as many Irish players on 30+ boxes do cross-fingering, this negates the need for a G/D as it can all be done on a C/G.

 

For me, you can't beat a C/G Jeffries for its shrill quality which will hold its own in a noisy session, especially when played in octaves.

[JimLucas]

...tessiatura - todays big word...

One letter too big? I think you meant "tessitura".

 

...I suspect a G/D could be discernable by expert ears.

[...]

...in a noisy session...

In a noisy session, I often have difficulty telling whether any particular individual is playing at all, much less distinguishing minor differences in tonality.

[Theo]

In a noisy session, I often have difficulty telling whether any particular individual is playing at all, much less distinguishing minor differences in tonality.

 

I could not agree more. One of the contributory factors to this must be the desire of some players to choose instruments that can "hold their own" in a sesion. (no personal criticism Geoff, I'm sure you can also play your Jeffries with great delicacy). As an occasional seller of instruments I'm always slightly wary when a player (especially a beginner) starts asking for a powerful instrument, particularly if its a piano accordion.

 

I've always been of the opinion that when playing in a session it is at least as important to listen to everyone else as it is to oneself.

[Jim Besser]

I've always been of the opinion that when playing in a session it is at least as important to listen to everyone else as it is to oneself.

 

Absolutely. But it's also a problem if you can't hear yourself. I find that in a crowded session, I can usually hear my C/G ok, but the G/d sometimes gets lost in the din, to the point where I barely know if I'm in the right key.

[bill_mchale]

In a noisy session, I often have difficulty telling whether any particular individual is playing at all, much less distinguishing minor differences in tonality.

 

I could not agree more. One of the contributory factors to this must be the desire of some players to choose instruments that can "hold their own" in a sesion. (no personal criticism Geoff, I'm sure you can also play your Jeffries with great delicacy). As an occasional seller of instruments I'm always slightly wary when a player (especially a beginner) starts asking for a powerful instrument, particularly if its a piano accordion.

 

 

I always get wary when anyone wants to play the piano accordion .

 

I've always been of the opinion that when playing in a session it is at least as important to listen to everyone else as it is to oneself.

 

Indeed, I actually rarely hear myself play... I am most likely to hear myself when I play a wrong note .

 

--

Bill

[Theo]

Indeed, I actually rarely hear myself play... I am most likely to hear myself when I play a wrong note .

--

Bill

Its great when you can do that, and for a few moments one's self disappears into the music.

[Paul Read]

From a practical point of playing Irish in a session, the C/G and G/D both have different timbres due to the difference in pitch. Granted, the G/D can be played higher to sound something like a C/G, but averaging out across the various tunes that would be played in session (especially on tunes with a large tessiatura - todays big word), I suspect a G/D could be discernable by expert ears.

When all said and done, as many Irish players on 30+ boxes do cross-fingering, this negates the need for a G/D as it can all be done on a C/G.

 

For me, you can't beat a C/G Jeffries for its shrill quality which will hold its own in a noisy session, especially when played in octaves.

 

Probably true for Irish music where you are just playing the tune (give or take the odd chord). For English music and Morris music though, the G/D comes into its own due to the full chording options available.

[Chris Timson]

you can't beat a C/G Jeffries for its shrill quality

Yet another reason for playing a G/D

 

Chris

[Harald Arnesen]

Hello.

I dont suppose that anyone is still viewing this thread, but I will still post this last message.

 

My Concertina is done (since long time ago). Its a G/D Anglo concertina. The wood is Mahagony. It works quite good, even though it is a german-type Konzertina. Its almost 100% airtight and sounds ok.

 

Here is a link to a page with some pictures: http://www.sologseil.no/harald/concertinas...concertinas.htm

 

Im currently working on Ideas for a new Anglo Concertina, but this time it will with the english type of mechanics and not the german.

 

Hope someone will see this, and maybe add some reply.

 

Harald

Edited January 9, 2007 by Harald Arnesen

[Chris Timson]

Did you make it, or was it made for you? The fretwork is splendid!

 

Chris

[Daniel Hersh]

Thanks for posting this, Harald--the fretwork is indeed very nice. What kind of reeds did you use? I'd love to hear some sound clips of your concertina if you've got a way to make them.

 

Daniel

 

Hello.

I dont suppose that anyone is still viewing this thread, but I will still post this last message.

 

My Concertina is done (since long time ago). Its a G/D Anglo concertina. The wood is Mahagony. It works quite good, even though it is a german-type Konzertina. Its almost 100% airtight and sounds ok.

 

Here is a link to a page with some pictures: http://www.sologseil.no/harald/consertinas...consertinas.htm

 

Im currently working on Ideas for a new Anglo Concertina, but this time it will with the english type of mechanics and not the german.

 

Hope someone will see this, and maybe add some reply.

 

Harald

[Harald Arnesen]

Hi Chris and Daniel.

Thanks for the replies. The concertina is made by me. Also the fretwork. The reeds are accordeon reeds. This is actually an Anglo-German Konzertina. We build this instrument in the first year of our school (instrumentmaker-school). I'm studying reed-instruments. This year I'm working on an "English-type" concertina, anglo-system. I will also make it with accordeon reeds (due to little time and not much money). It will be a 20-button G/D concertina. The only problem is that in this school, they don't know to much about the English concertina, so I have to do a lot of research myself. And I don't own one. I was actually wondering if you guys have conertinas (which I suppose! ). Could you then possibly take some hi-resolution closeup-pictures of the mechaniks and somehow send them to me? That would help a lot.

I will try to make a short recording of my concertina as soon as possible, but I must insist on practicing a bit first, (Concertina is not (yet) my main instrument).

 

Kind regards,

Harald

[Theo]

Harald

 

 

There are some excellent pictures here on Wim Wakkers Concertina Connection

[chris]

Hi Harald

I have some reasonable photos from my Joseph Scates (1850/1) can't download them here but if you email me i will send by email

chris

[Daniel Hersh]

There are some nice ones on the concertina.com too, such as on this page. It may take some time to load, but it's worth waiting for.

 

Harald

 

There are some excellent pictures here on Wim Wakkers Concertina Connection