This May Be Obvious But....

[gretchen]

I haven't been playing Irish music or the concertina for more than a few months, but there's something that I've been having a bit of trouble fully grasping... how to tell *by listening* what is a jig, what is a reel, what is a slip-jig, horpipe, etc. I've had people explain this to me in the past, but by the time I get back home I've always forgotten their explanations, no matter how clear they were to me before. I feel sort of silly for asking about this, maybe I could figure it out on my own, but I'm hoping seeing it in writing will help. Is this maybe just one of those things that takes a while? I mean, I can kinda tell polkas from reels, but I'd never be sure enough bet on it or anything. When I learn a song I tend to play it over and over with a tape, if I have it on tape, so that I can get the rhythm that way. Is there anywhere that I can look to figure these things out better?

Thanks in advance for any help with this!

[spindizzy]

I haven't been playing Irish music or the concertina for more than a few months, but there's something that I've been having a bit of trouble fully grasping... how to tell *by listening* what is a jig, what is a reel, what is a slip-jig, horpipe, etc. I've had people explain this to me in the past, but by the time I get back home I've always forgotten their explanations, no matter how clear they were to me before. I feel sort of silly for asking about this, maybe I could figure it out on my own, but I'm hoping seeing it in writing will help. Is this maybe just one of those things that takes a while? I mean, I can kinda tell polkas from reels, but I'd never be sure enough bet on it or anything. When I learn a song I tend to play it over and over with a tape, if I have it on tape, so that I can get the rhythm that way. Is there anywhere that I can look to figure these things out better?

Thanks in advance for any help with this!

 

 

There are quite a few little mnemonics that go around ... everyone has there own favourites...

In this part of the world (NW UK) you'll find

 

for a (double) jig, chant: Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton etc

If you can sing the words "Crystal Palace, Crystal Palace" to it it's a reel

 

"See you later Aligator" for a hornpipe

"Humpty Dumpty sat on a Wall" a slide

 

Chris.

[Henk van Aalten]

for a (double) jig, chant: Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton etc

 

Chris,

I miss the slip jig. Maybe it's Liverpool Everton Manchester, Liverpool Everton Manchester, etc.

[Richard Morse]

Here's a jig and hemiola by David Goldstein (by way and thanks to David Barnert):

 

If playing's your joy and delight

But triple time gets you uptight

I'd suggest on the whole, a

Discreet hemiola

Will make the rhythm come out right.

[spindizzy]

for a (double) jig, chant: Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton etc

 

Chris,

I miss the slip jig. Maybe it's Liverpool Everton Manchester, Liverpool Everton Manchester, etc.

 

I rather like the chemistry one...

Paradiethylaminobenzaldehyde, wash it all down with a dose of insecticide ....

Sung to the Irish Washerwoman (also a test of sobriety or lack of it :-)

 

Chris

[David Barnert]

Don't worry about the different types of jigs, for now. Single jigs go: "Humpty Dumpty" and double jigs go "Higgledy Piggledy" but they're all jigs. 123 123 123 123, quickly. Reels are the same thing with 4 or 8 counts: "Never mind the furthermore, the plea is self-defense." Or my favorite, from Meredith Willson's "The Music Man," the spoken song "Rock Island."

 

There's some useful information here.

[JimLucas]

Don't worry about the different types of jigs, for now. Single jigs go: "Humpty Dumpty" and double jigs go "Higgledy Piggledy" but they're all jigs. 123 123 123 123, quickly.

I agree with David that you shouldn't worry about the different types of jigs, one reason being that the terms "single jig" and "double jig" mean different things to different groups of people. Here is a Topic which discusses that somewhat.

 

The main difference is that the various rhythms known as "jigs" each main beat is divided into 3 equal-length parts (though only the first of the three is stressed), while in reels and polkas, hornpipes, etc. the principal division of each main beat is into 2 or 4 equal parts. (I believe that in what David calls a "single jig", the first two of the three parts are combined into one longer note.) Hornpipes are less consistent: In American traditions they tend to be divided evenly and not really distinguished from reels, but in Irish, English, and Scottish traditions they tend to a very unequal, or "bouncy" division. (At a deeper level, the bouncy hornpipes are also based on repeated division by 2, not 3, but unless you can feel the difference, I don't think an analytical description will help much.)

[CaryK]

Thank you, Jim for the brief but clear answer. As a relatively new player with little musically tradition, I've wondered too what the difference between these tunes were.

[semaj1950]

Hi Gretchen. Nothing is really obvious when it comes to music. However, back to the jig/reel question:

 

Reels tend to be rhythmically divided into multiples of two.

The bold numbers are the pulse, or steady foot beats, in these examples. Tap your foot steadily for each bold number--bump-bump-bump-bump. Like a clock. Say the number on the foot bump, and the other words in the examples in between the numbers.

 

Two beats per measure is: one-two-one-two.

 

Or four beats per measure is: one-two-three-four-one-two-three-four.

 

Or 8 beats per measure is: one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and-one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and. In this meter, the "and" comes in when your foot is off the floor getting ready for another bump.

 

Sixteen would be one-ee-and-uh-two-ee-and-uh-three-ee-and-uh-four-ee-and-uh-one-ee-and-uh-two-ee-and-uh-three-ee-and-uh-four-ee-and-uh.

 

We'll let 32 take care of itself--for now. Of course, any one measure of actual music without ornamentation cna be any combination of the above. Eg. one-two-and-three-ee-and-uh-four.

 

So. If you can pat your foot to the pulse, and count in rhythmic divisions that are multiples of two for the notes on and between the pats as I've indicated above, you probably have a reel. If you pat your foot and can say the higgledy piggledy, or BloomingtonWashingtonBellingham on and between the beats it's either a jig or a hornpipe. I'll let someone far wiser than I tell you how to differentiate between those.

 

Now if that doesn't muddy the waters, I'll try something else.

[Henk van Aalten]

If you pat your foot and can say the higgledy piggledy, or BloomingtonWashingtonBellingham on and between the beats it's either a jig or a hornpipe.

The higgledy piggledy is indeed a jig, but BloomingtonWashingtonBellingham sounds to me like a slip jig (aka triple jig).

[semaj1950]

If you pat your foot and can say the higgledy piggledy, or BloomingtonWashingtonBellingham on and between the beats it's either a jig or a hornpipe.

The higgledy piggledy is indeed a jig, but BloomingtonWashingtonBellingham sounds to me like a slip jig (aka triple jig).

Right you are, Henk. I thought about that when I prepared to send my little examples, but didn't look for another 3 syllable city.

 

BTW, I really like your Concertina Big Band idea, and have been doing a bit of work on preparing to record for it. I agree, the Audacity is pretty amazing for free ware.

 

Jim

[gretchen]

Thank you all so much! Hopefully it'll stick this time, eh? Anyway, I really do appreciate the help.