The Jeffries System

[Frank Edgley]

This is just my take on the issue. I sometimes hear that the Jeffries system of fingering is better that the Wheatstone/Lachenal system, and that is confirmed by the fact that most good players in Ireland play the Jeffries system. First of all, I believe both systems are equal. It all depends what you get used to. You will come up with a fingering pattern you are comforable with, either Jeffries or Wheatstone. So why do so many Irish players play Jeffries system concertinas? I believe it all comes down to the quality of the instrument, historically. Jeffries made instruments were far ahead of Lachenal made concertinas in quality and sound. Wheatstone did not make anglos in any significant numbers, concentrating production on the English system. So if you were a serious player, years ago, you wanted a Jeffries....way better qulity than a Lachenal. This continued until comparatively recently when makers like Colin Dipper and a few others started making excellent quality instruments in both systems. But there is still the legacy of this situation. Excellent players in Ireland give lessons to concertina learners and many, if not most, still play Jeffries. But there have been notable exceptions. Chris Droney played Wheatstone system, and I believe Tommy and Jacqueline McCarthy did as well. So, enough of the idea the one system is better than the other. Personally, I like the Wheatstone/Lachenal system and have based my fingering on it. It's all what you get used to.

[Peter Laban]

'So if you were a serious player, years ago, you wanted a Jeffries....'

 

Wasn't the volume of the Jeffrey's a significant consideration at the time? And a lot of word of mouth: 'so and so ays a J. so it must be good' There's always a lot of that going on as well.

 

While he probably had several concertinas, I mostly remember Tommy McCarthy playing a Jeff.

 

Edited February 23 by Peter Laban

[Jim Besser]

41 minutes ago, Frank Edgley said:

 First of all, I believe both systems are equal. It all depends what you get used to. You will come up with a fingering pattern you are comforable with, either Jeffries or Wheatstone. 

 

Agree; I actually play both.  My CG is Wheatstone/Lachenal, more or less, and my GD is Jeffries. I don't have a problem moving back and forth, and I don't see any great difference in playability.  I seem to have a slight preference for the Jeffries layout, but that's probably because I have a preference for the actual Jeffries instrument!

 

Re: Irish players: wondering what system Noel Hill plays. I know he has both Jeffries and Lachenal instruments, probably a Wheatstone or two as well. Does he switch, or has he modified his instruments?

[Frank Edgley]

Not sure about Tommy McCarthy, as I said in my post, or at least that was my intention. The point I was trying to make was that one system is not better than the other, and my theory as to why a lot of players in Ireland play Jeffries is because it was the best made instrument 40 or 50 or more years ago. Sometimes I have customers say they want a Jeffries system instrument because they heard it is a better system than a Wheatstone/Lachenal. Each system has its advantages and disadvantages, and our fingering patterns evolve according to the pattern of notes on the third row, RH side. I have also heard in the recent past that there is a right way to play (as far as fingering is concerned and what buttons you use to play certain notes) and anything else is the wrong way. There is only a musical way to play. Noel Hill and Chris Droney were very different in their button choices, but were both outstanding players with very different styles and button choices.

[John Wild]

40 or 50 years ago would take you back only to 1974. I think the key period could go back another 50 years.

As an English concertina player, i have no involvement directly in this debate.

[LR71]

Florence Fahy plays Wheatstone, she's from north Clare and learned from Chris Droney so that figures.  A friend was over last summer and said she really gets some decibels out of that thing, too.  Liam O'Brien is another Wheatstone player.

 

I read somewhere that Noel started playing Wheatstones simply because they're more durable...

 

Let's not forget the sound, I simply prefer the tone of Jeffries style instruments, which I guess is mostly due to that parallel reed pan.  I imagine a lot of musicians gravitated to them for that. 

 

The Jeffries pull C# gives you the ability to play a run legato around the middle D, or to play a B/C#/D triplet, having to push that C# would really gum up the works.  I think.  Those are some things that come to mind giving the Jeffries layout an edge for playability.  Or they open up some nice possibilities, anyway; the Wheatstone layout certainly doesn't slow down a good player.  The two different button box systems in use with Irish music have similar plusses and minuses, which are more like things that you can put to use in the music to create sounds; and certain things are simpler/easier on one system then the other.  The differences between the two concertina systems are much more minor, by contrast.

 

[Joe G.]

Does a 36-button Wheatstone C/G have a pull C#? 

[Luke Hillman]

14 minutes ago, Joe G. said:

Does a 36-button Wheatstone C/G have a pull C#? 

 

Assuming the extra six buttons are one button placed on the inside of each row, which is what I think I've seen, then yes. It would likely be the same placement as on a 40-button Wheatstone layout.

[LR71]

The 40 button example on this page has one, looks just like Luke's layout though, maybe it's the source.  From what I've read the layout on these deluxe instruments could vary a bit, though.

[Dan Worrall]

I agree with Frank on the difference in systems, Wheatstone vs Jeffries....they both work fine for my simple purposes.

 

Back in the (Victorian era) day, Jeffries instruments were the best, and regarded as such by nearly everyone that I know of in the historical record. When new, they were very fast and had/have this incredible 'bark' in their tone that is difficult to duplicate. I've searched for years for a good one, wanting 'that' tone yet with speed. And there's the rub. Not all of them, today, are of equal quality, by a long shot. I've gone through half a dozen over the last 40 years trying to find one that has the speed - or at least most of the speed - of my treasured Dipper CG, whilst still having that classic bark (listen to classic recordings of William Kimber, or of some of the old Irish players, while of course realizing that the tone doesn't always come through on the recordings). Many of them have been remuddled over the last century, and it is easy to destroy the tone and/or the speed. So my recommendation for those wanting a Jeffries is to first get a newly made instrument that appeals to you - especially one that has speed - and then have a long, leisurely search for a good Jeffries as a second instrument. It's a fun search!

 

By the way, some Jeffries can be brought back to a quality state from the brink of doom. I've worked for six years getting a BbF up to snuff, before Steve Dickinson (valves pads and reed set) and Colin Dipper (button height and stroke) worked absolute magic with it. It is an absolute jewel now, and my long search is over. Too bad it isn't CG, but something about being a step lower in pitch brings out the best in the Jeffries tone, in my opinion.