Advice needed on making rolls sound percussive

[Caroline]

I’ve been playing Anglo for about a year now and while I feel my cuts and grace notes are coming along nicely, I can’t say the same about my rolls.  Now matter how quickly or lightly I tap the buttons, I can’t seem to get that nice little percussive chirp.  Instead I feel I hear too much of the notes themselves.  I’ve tried both holding down the rolling note and leaving it up.  I’m wondering if it’s a matter of the mechanics of the concertina itself?  I have a new CC custom Clover which I took delivery of last January.  To me it seems very quick and responsive and it takes little effort to sound the notes or work the bellows.  Any advice?

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I am not certain by 'rolls'.. but most effects and ability to do them well comes over time, and with practice.

Sometimes ( on Anglo) you can create a sort of 'trill' effect also by using bellows, and by so slightly moving bellows just enough to go rapidly from the one note to the other, for example: G natural to A natural is on one button on Anglo, and by moving bellows ( keeping the figer on the one button pressed down)..will alternate the two notes which can be done very rapidly if required.

It's a question over button and bellows  coordination on Anglo.

Probably completely different to your question over "rolls".. but you will find your own way with practice ..and patience will get you there🌝

Edited December 30, 2023 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Jody Kruskal]

Try holding the button down while tapping the end plate with a handy finger.

[Caroline]

Hey Jody, is that the “phantom button” technique I read on The Session?  I’ve tried that too. But I’m still a novice and I can’t make the tapping outside of the buttons work just yet.  I’ll keep on trying though!

 

and Simon, I thank you for the encouragement.

 

caroline

[Chris Ghent]

It is definitely easier to make the popping sound on the two higher notes with a better quality concertina. The Clover would be a little more difficult but definitely not impossible.  The button needs to travel about 1mm down and then the finger needs to get out of the way as quickly as possible. Some people do a glancing tap where the button is tapped on such an angle the finger is off the button sideways very quickly rather than needing to reverse direction and be raised. 
 

Try putting a large amount of bellows pressure on while you are trying to get this technique. The pressure will make it pop easier and once you have it completely under control you can back off a little.  The exercise I teach is to sit with a lot of pressure on the bellows and keep tapping one note, seeing how short and sharp you can make it.  When I was learning I spent hours doing this.
 

Although it is often taught, play the low note, pop the two high notes and play the low note again, I don’t hear people doing this. One successful technique I hear entails holding the low note through to the end of the first of the high popped notes, play the second popped note and then the low note again.  This means during the first popped note you have two reeds sounding and this emphasises that note which is what you want for rhythm.  If you do this the low note must be stopped exactly when the high note does or it will just sound muddy. Learn to do it playing very slowly.  
 

The word to remember is crisp..!

 

Listening to others is good and I recommend Brenda Castles; she has a large number of techniques but also she plays without other instruments and you can hear her. 

[Roger Hare]

3 hours ago, Jody Kruskal said:

Try holding the button down while tapping the end plate with a handy finger.

Oh good - I thought I had 'invented' this technique ~4 years ago. It's nice that some-one who knows what they are talking about is recommending it.

 

It works! I wonder, does the effectiveness of the technique increase with the speed of the finger-tap? (I'm a very slow tapper...)

[LR71]

Every note, every roll documents ways to attack stuff, along with links to discussions.  Apparently Tim Collins was the first to start slapping the right end in lieu of a grace note(s). 

 

I sometimes throw in these slap rolls, in specific spots or tunes.  There's cranning, too, where you have two cuts, no tap.  And some apparently cran everything - with the same two notes - according to the link I provided.  That would be dreary!

 

Don't be reluctant to do something other than a roll.  They're not mandatory!  And don't think you can deploy them with the same ease as a flute or fiddle player, or piper.  It's pretty demanding in comparison, especially on certain notes.  High g drives me nuts!

[John, Wexford]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:42 PM, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

I am not certain by 'rolls'.. but most effects and ability to do them well comes over time, and with practice.

Sometimes ( on Anglo) you can create a sort of 'trill' effect also by using bellows, and by so slightly moving bellows just enough to go rapidly from the one note to the other, for example: G natural to A natural is on one button on Anglo, and by moving bellows ( keeping the figer on the one button pressed down)..will alternate the two notes which can be done very rapidly if required.

It's a question over button and bellows  coordination on Anglo.

Probably completely different to your question over "rolls".. but you will find your own way with practice ..and patience will get you there🌝

 

I am sure that you mean well, Simon, but rapidly alternating and reversing the notes G and A on a single button, whatever the row, will never work when playing Irish Traditional Music, even if played at a moderate or slow speed.

[seanc]

Could  someone point to a video of these techniques?

this is really interesting. But I could use a visual for clarification.

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

• I did try that finger tapping method for very quick repeated [same or identical ] notes last year and it did seem to work quite well, but you need to practice it to get it fluent. Anyway, a roll is always better with butter on it!