Can anybody ID this instrument?

[Theo]

 

3 hours ago, Daniel Hersh said:

9 hours ago, Chemnitzer said:

So, l see used 30-key English concertinas for about £280-£380. Taking my cue from that, my concertina could never be £300. 

 

Read Theo's response again, and be aware that he is writing from his experience as an established concertina and accordion restorer and dealer.   What it's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it.

 

Yes, and size and number of buttons is not really relevant.  The value of 30 key (anglo) is supported by a huge international market of people who play Irish music.

 

To take an opposite example: you could compare the vale of a 120 bass piano accordion from the 1930s (which is when your Scheffler was likely made) which has more buttons and keys. These can have highly ornate inlay work and be of similar build similar quality to the  Scheffler.  Even in playable condition these are virtually unsaleable and their value is mostly just for use as spare parts.

[Chemnitzer]

5 hours ago, Daniel Hersh said:

 

Read Theo's response again, and be aware that he is writing from his experience as an established concertina and accordion restorer and dealer.   What it's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it.

I am sorry for contradicting you about the Scheffler. I am a polite guy and l speak politely. My response was an uptake on the idea of comparing the market. In the conversation l was having with that other person. Is this turning into a confrontation?

[Chemnitzer]

1 hour ago, Theo said:

 

 

Yes, and size and number of buttons is not really relevant.  The value of 30 key (anglo) is supported by a huge international market of people who play Irish music.

 

To take an opposite example: you could compare the vale of a 120 bass piano accordion from the 1930s (which is when your Scheffler was likely made) which has more buttons and keys. These can have highly ornate inlay work and be of similar build similar quality to the  Scheffler.  Even in playable condition these are virtually unsaleable and their value is mostly just for use as spare parts.

For the £300 price bracket, l feel it becomes relevant. Just like strange goings on in an atom become relevant if you go macro enough. By the way, l am comparing the market as you advised.

 

Just curious: why would the 120-key bass accordion be worthless even if playable?

 

P.S. I know number of buttons / keys is not the determinant factor, l've seen very small nippy accordions going for very high prices e.g. this Castagnari (the repertoire is sublime, l am considering getting into irish music from hearing this):

 

But l think at an "economy" price band, l think it's a major factor, to be able to play whatever repertoire you want on it.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Chemnitzer

[RAc]

16 minutes ago, Chemnitzer said:

Just curious: why would the 120-key bass accordion be worthless even if playable?

 

Well, it naturally all depends on the definition of "worthiness." Needless to say: Any well crafted playable instrument has some kind of value, as long as there it at least one person able to appreciate it AND willing and able to put whatever money it is worth to him/her on the table.

 

But if there is no such person around (at least in a time frame acceptable to the seller), then the *monetary* value of the instrument is close to 0. Market economy 101.

 

Last year, I was given an attic find melodeon in perfect playing condition and with very decent sound for free. I had a hard time finding a good home for it even though all I asked from a potential new owner was a nominal donation to a charity (just to make sure not to leave it with someone who ruthlessly takes everything he/she can get for free). With the help of Theo, I was able to locate someone who coincidentally was looking for that very model at that time, so for the reimbursement of the shopping costs, the meldeon travelled about 1500 kms and (from all I can tell) is being actively played and appreciated. Had it been a 30 button Anglo concertina in a similar condition, I would have advised the person who offered it to me to put it up on the market with an estimated 2000 EUR gain.

 

[Chemnitzer]

@RAc I think the valuation part of this thread boils down to:

- In the world of accordions, old and biig definitely does not mean good (personally l don't relish being in a dust cloud of 10 past owners' flakey skin )

- A rare layout should really go for dealer prices as they are the only ones that can afford to hold potentially unsaleable stock

- Or give it away for free

 

I don't even get why the Scheffler layout exists, l hopeit wasn't mere competition between chemnitz and haustein's factory in zwickau I read somewhere that Scheffler can give hand-ache

Edited December 10, 2023 by Chemnitzer

[wunks]

Learn to play it for contradance .  Any darn contraption is liable to turn up there including the dreaded PA, ( Bob Macquillon, Selma Kaplan  )....😊

Edited December 10, 2023 by wunks

[Chemnitzer]

3 hours ago, wunks said:

Learn to play it for contradance .  Any darn contraption is liable to turn up there including the dreaded PA, ( Bob Macquillon, Selma Kaplan  )....😊

 

Could do. With a magnetic tape mod to play mid-80s synthpop.

[wunks]

Careful....Contra-dancers are adrenaline junkies with a propensity toward mass hysteria.  Halls have been known to implode into the basement...you could be stomped to death....or flung into the refreshment table at the very least!  A beautiful waltz by Selma called April Waltz would be a good place to start.  You can hear it on youtube 26th session 2023 lead by concertina player Jim Boyle...😀

[Chemnitzer]

@wunks that's nice (l heard the violin version). I'd love to play the Captain Pugwash theme, when l first heard it as a MIDI track online (re-heard, l knew it from my childhood but forgot), l tranced out and was unable to stop the looped audio. Maybe a duet concertina would be good for that, because of the staccato notes in each phrase, but it'd have to be keyed to the notes shared between each hand (that's the only occasion i'd want a piano accordion, l'd need only tap the piano key with two fingers to get the staccato ... btw l'm not an accordionist yet, but am considering taking it up)

Edited December 10, 2023 by Chemnitzer

[malcolm clapp]

Off-topic content (piano accordion advice) removed by request.

Edited December 13, 2023 by malcolm clapp

[Chemnitzer]

Thanks @malcolm clapp i didn't mind it

[bphogue4]

I have a similar instrument, but in unplayable condition.  I've always called it a Pearl Queen, although I can't remember where I got that term.  It would need a lot of restoration, and I have most of the missing parts.  If anybody wants to try fixing it, I'd take $100 plus shipping from Texas.  There's lots of etched mother of pearl on it, and it would be a beautiful instrument if repaired.  The only mark on it is "Concertina" as shown in the last picture.  No maker shown.  It came in a wooden box with metal corners.  The paper inside showing the button arrangement has a date of 1911.