Hand positions

[Ubizmo]

I thought I should start a new thread for this. I have two questions about hand positions.

 

1. I find that after playing for a while I feel some tension in my wrists. I rest the concertina on my right knee. Since my upper arm doesn't reach down to my lap (whose does?), this means that my forearm slopes down while playing. And that means that to keep my hands parallel to the base of the instrument, which seems to be important, I have to have my wrists cocked back a bit. As I practice more and more (It's a bit addictive, isn't it?), I feel the strain in them. Any suggestions on that?

 

2. This is related to the first question. As my wrists get tired, my hands tend to drop down to be in line with my forearms, and when that happens, my third and possibly second fingers will drift down to the inner row, and I start hitting wrong notes. I just wonder if there's some more ergonomic way of holding the concertina to avoid this.

 

Yeah, it's really just one question.

[Paul_Hardy]

My suggestions are below to prevent the concertina on the knee drooping forwards and down - you want your hands slightly pointing up for comfort and to keep fingers on the right buttons:

1) cross your legs to raise the knee (not for long periods).

2) sit on a lower chair

3) put your foot on a guitar stool

4) put your foot on your concertina case (if hard case).

5) put both feet on yoga blocks to raise them (Google for yoga block) - they are light, cheap, and about the right height for me.

 

My preference is (5), or  (1) if I have no blocks.

[Steve Schulteis]

Paul's advice to prop your knee up a bit is good. Are you resting your concertina on a flat or a corner?

[Michael Eskin]

Are you playing Anglo or English?

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

A lot of tension in wrists can often be caused by being anxious or nervous over playing technique.

Concertinas should not be overly heavy that they cause you a problem.

Try relax your arms more, or rest is good also, to take breaks inbetween practice is important too.

My own technique is so much of its own way I can only say it works solely for myself; but I barely hold the thing as it is with whole hands loosely inside straps ( not the done method overall) but never had aching arms through playing in many years of use in playing..🌝🌝

My own method maybe best not copied😊😊

[Ubizmo]

12 hours ago, Steve Schulteis said:

Paul's advice to prop your knee up a bit is good. Are you resting your concertina on a flat or a corner?

I rest it on a flat. Propping the knee up helps. 

Michael: It's an Anglo. 

Simon: The Rochelle 2 seems pretty stiff, even though it's the only one I've played. I think this stiffness helps to cause tension in my wrists, too. I feel like I'm working pretty hard when I play. Most of that is probably just poor technique, but when I see videos of people playing concertinas where the below droops even partly extended, I know they're playing instruments that are pretty different from mine. 

[Steve Schulteis]

I like to rest the concertina on a corner. I find this allows a more ergonomic arm/wrist position. YMMV

[Ubizmo]

22 hours ago, Steve Schulteis said:

I like to rest the concertina on a corner. I find this allows a more ergonomic arm/wrist position. YMMV

This guy, https://youtu.be/Mv8zAKkMzG4?si=he95QslmiZe4y_up may be doing that, it's hard to see. But his hands are angled down, as are his forearms. Looks fairly relaxed. 

[hjcjones]

Your playing position should be relaxed, with your hands more or less in line with your forearms. Having them cocked as you describe is not only uncomfortable, it will hamper your playing and at worst could result in a long-term injury.  Whilst I don't recognise Paul Hardy's suggestion of having the hands pointing up, if it works for him then I'm not going to say he's wrong. What is important is to find a position which works for you and which you can maintain comfortably for as long as you need (although I would urge you not to over-practice, particularly at this early stage of your playing when is is easy to overdo things)

 

Your second problem stems directly from the first, and finding a comfortable playing position should resolve it  When at rest your fingers should fall naturally onto the "home buttons" (the top four buttons on the C row). 

[Paul_Hardy]

3 hours ago, hjcjones said:

Whilst I don't recognise Paul Hardy's suggestion of having the hands pointing up, if it works for him then I'm not going to say he's wrong.

 

I did say "slightly pointing up". I agree that they want to be more or less in line with your forearms. However if I raise my feet a couple of inches on a block, or just cross my legs, then my knee is a little bit higher than my elbows, so my forearms, and relaxed wrists and hands point very slightly upwards.

[hjcjones]

That's more or less what I'd imagined.  Personally, it's not a position I find has any advantages for me so it's not one I would aim for, although in a session it's one I might find myself forced into. However if it works for you I'm not suggesting it's wrong.  My comment was intended to make the point that what works for one person may not work for another, and that what really matters is for a player to find a position which is comfortable for them.

[Alan Day]

One method to relax is to try and play quietly .

Practice patterns are an interesting subject to consider. Hours of non stop practice can create muscle problems and I find that mentally I do not progress as my mind cannot cope with it. Twenty minute sessions are far more useful and then take a break for at least an hour. 

Al

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

It's often the case that you do not have to practice a skill constantly, to the point of 'near exhaustion'.. to keep the ability in your system. Often, I have found at least, the learning is still continued in the mind long after you complete a physical session of practice. And that bit of learned know how will suddenly 'come back' into your next sessions, and down into the hands and fingers; because it is there within.

Edited October 31, 2023 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Ubizmo]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:30 PM, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

It's often the case that you do not have to practice a skill constantly, to the point of 'near exhaustion'.. to keep the ability in your system. Often, I have found at least, the learning is still continued in the mind long after you complete a physical session of practice. And that bit of learned know how will suddenly 'come back' into your next sessions, and down into the hands and fingers; because it is there within.

I think it's generally true that the learning takes place between practice sessions, not during. In any case, my practice sessions are typically about a half hour; then I do something else for a while.

 

But getting back to hand and arm position, I've been experimenting with extending my support leg a bit and letting my arms straighten a little, holding the concertina farther away, not tucked in close. This gives less leverage for pushing and pulling the bellows, but I find I actually have more control if I move the bellows by turning my wrist, along with the pushing and pulling, so it ends up feeling like less work.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I think with concertinas being one of the few deliberately invented instruments; that were made as a newer idea ( related to early free reed ones acknowledged)..at some point the inventer or first ever musicians have to decide how they are played, what method, best way and approach, and that becomes adopted over time.

This established technique does not mean that you cannot still develop your own way of playing, or adapting if it suits individual need.

I know I have what is considerd an odd way of barely holding my concertina, with hands through strap, but that works for me ( as much as it may annoy the purists)..

Once you have learned the basics, then you will develop your own approach to improving or playing; so do not let the good basic hints read in established books make you feel that you will not be able to soon adapt gradually to method that suits you best.