How Many English Players?

[John Wild]

The International Concertina Association membership currently shows:

Anglo players              23.6%

English players            59.7%

Duet players                16.7%

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I found it interesting to compare membership analysis for more recent members only. Sorry if I am boring the rest of you.

 

for ICA members joining from 1990 onwards, the percentages are:

 

Anglo players 23.6%

English players 60.5%

Duet players 15.9%

 

Not much change there, but not surprising as there are not so many older members left now.

 

 

for ICA members joining from 2000 onwards, the percentages are:

 

Anglo players 24.6%

English players 61.0%

Duet players 14.4%

 

A slight variation but still not much change.

 

- John Wild

[Nanette Hooker]

Given that concertinists are rare, and that the majority of concertinists play anglo, does anyone have any estimates on the total number of concertinists versus those who play English versus those who play duet?  I wouldn't even know where to start guessing, but I guess it's gotta be pretty small...right?

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Getting back to the original post, which I think is a ratio or percentage question. It is obvious to me that ratios are geographically variable at different scales.

 

Global scale = impossible to determine

National or regional scale = possible to estimate in a broad sense in some countries/regions and may be influenced by history, for example, I think there are more anglo players in Australia than other systems because of the Irish influence on the culture.

Local scale = may be possible to estimate if the population is not too large.

 

Another factor to consider though, is the background of the "player". I am English by birth and upbringing, as I believe Malcolm Clapp is, and he and I play English Concertina. I think there are few Australian born and bred EC players.

 

Just some rambling thoughts

[malcolm clapp]

Another factor to consider though, is the background of the "player".  I am English by birth and upbringing, as I believe Malcolm Clapp is, and he and I play English Concertina.  I think there are few Australian born and bred EC players.

 

Just confirming, Poaceae, that I am English, but I also play anglo, though not Irish style. I use it more like a duet (Yes, a frustrated duet player).

 

Of my local sample of players, 5 are Australian born and bred afaik, though one is a confirmed anglophile! One is Holland Dutch!

 

I think you are partly right about anglos and the Irish influence on Australia's culture, but remember the large German migration to Australia too. I've met a fair number of Australians of German descent who play concertina. again mainly anglo.

 

Since my last post, my wife has reminded me of three local "dabblers", though none are currently too active. One is 94 years old and the mother of one of my previously mentioned players. I've never heard her play, but I'm assured she used to be able to knock out a tune. Another plays button accordion these days as he never seems to have the money for a new set of bellows for his metal ended Lachenal 30 key which I do remember him playing very nicely a few years back. And another local folk identity who has been around free reed instruments since childhood who picked up my Jeffries at a recent session and acquitted himself extremely well! Said he hadn't played concertina for some years, preferring the fiddle nowadays.

 

I think I do need to adjust my Australian anglo:English percentages a bit though, in favour of the anglo, though not just in light of the local sampling. Having had a little more time to think about it, I think 5 or 6 to one would be more accurate.

[JimLucas]

Another factor to consider though, is the background of the "player".  I am English by birth and upbringing, as I believe Malcolm Clapp is, and he and I play English Concertina.  I think there are few Australian born and bred EC players.

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My own "statistical sample" gives just the opposite result.

The only concertina-playing Australian that I know personally plays English. And he's a born and bred.

 

Of course, I'm not claiming that that defines all Australian concertina players, but that's my point. Trying to draw any conclusions from a tiny sample is invalid. It's like flipping a coin once, getting heads, and concluding, "Look, every time you flip a coin, it comes up heads!"

[malcolm clapp]

With reference to my earlier comment about the influence of German migration on Australian culture, and just to confuse the issue, I can think of four Australian players I know of German speaking Swiss background, and they all play English! (Two are siblings admittedly, the others unrelated).

 

All Australian born and bred, I might add, Poaceae

 

I don't know what percentage of Australians are of Swiss descent, probably not many, and I certainly do not draw any conclusions from this. Happy to leave that to others! Interesting though....(or not!).

Edited August 5, 2005 by malcolm clapp

[Stephen Mills]

Malcolm and Nanette: this site states that “Approximately 150,000 people play the accordion in Australia today.” I wonder how that estimate corresponds to your personal experience of local instrument percentages and might influence your notion of how many concertina players there might be in Australia.

 

***WARNING*** ***WARNING*** ***WARNING***

No justification was given for the estimate given in the quotation above. It should not be accepted uncritically because it was found with a google search. Data found on the internet may be false, as may be the expectation of finding correct answers. Although I have repeated this estimate, I have made no attempt to verify its validity. I have no desire to create or perpetuate intentional deception resulting in injury to another person and accept no liability in this matter.

***WARNING*** ***WARNING*** ***WARNING***

Edited August 5, 2005 by Stephen Mills

[Stephen Chambers]

Malcolm and Nanette:  this site states that  “Approximately 150,000 people play the accordion in Australia today.”  I wonder how that estimate corresponds to your personal experience of local instrument percentages and might influence your notion of how many concertina players there might be in Australia.

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Stephen,

 

Maybe it sounds rather inflated because the author was listening to the BBC Radio 4 Music Quiz, Counterpoint and is confusing concertinas for accordions. Could it really be more a reflection of just "how many concertina players there might be in Australia" ?

Edited August 5, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[Guest]

“Approximately 150,000 people play the accordion in Australia today.”

And they are all expert at hiding it!

[Stephen Mills]

“Approximately 150,000 people play the accordion in Australia today.”

And they are all expert at hiding it!

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And if all 150,000 were playing at the same time today, the din must have been unbearable even in Australia!

 

Very funny, you two. Stephen, I've been giggling at your little joke all afternoon.

 

I'm going to take a timely break from the fray in pursuit of 1 unassailable statistic: the number of concertinas in my household has increased by 1 this evening with the delivery of my Tedrow Hayden duet, and 1 unassailable fact: I have no clue how to play it but for a button diagram. (UPS delivered the concertina to the corresponding house 2 blocks north - if the honest resident had kept it instead of getting in his car and personally delivering it....)

 

Welcome back from Sidmouth, you tired and happy lot. Wotcher, one and all.

Edited August 5, 2005 by Stephen Mills

[Rhomylly]

thank you all for the light bulb jokes. I feel better now.

 

Somehow my understanding of English/Australian slang does not include a definition or pronunciation of "wotcher"

 

Can someone help?

[Stephen Chambers]

I think you are partly right about anglos and the Irish influence on Australia's culture, but remember the large German migration to Australia too. I've met a fair number of Australians of German descent who play concertina. again mainly anglo.

 

I think I do need to adjust my Australian anglo:English percentages a bit though, in favour of the anglo, though not just in light of the local sampling. Having had a little more time to think about it, I think 5 or 6 to one would be more accurate.

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I think a little history might throw some light on this. The English concertina was very fashionable and at the height of its popularity in the 1850's, but it was extremely expensive at that time, with typical prices of 6, 12 or 15 guineas at the beginning of the decade (the equivalent of £3,580, £7,160 or £8,950 in the year 2000). No wonder many of Wheatstone's customers came from titled families ! (Even the 2 guinea "People's Concertina" that Lachenal's introduced in 1862 cost the equivalent of £990.)

 

But a 10-key German concertina cost only 12 shillings in 1851 (£340), or a 20-key cost 18 shillings (£510), and it seems they could even be got for as little as half-a-crown (£72) in the 1850's. By the 1860's the removal of high import duties as a consequence of free-trade policies, and the rise of the cheap Klingenthal makers to domination of the trade, had made them even more affordable, and they were readily available from hardware shops and (sometimes) tobacconists (whilst music shops were rare outside large towns). As a consequence of this, and ordinary people starting to have money to spend, the German concertina (with self-instructors to "play by numbers") became extremely popular in that decade, until the melodeon took over from it in popularity in the 1870's.

 

This meant that country people (with limited incomes), in England, Ireland, Australia and elsewhere, could now afford to buy a German concertina, and hence they tended to go on to buying/playing Anglos. But in towns wages were much higher, and hence English concertinas (like Lachenal's "People's Concertina") both more affordable and teachers more readily available.

 

Obviously this is a very simplified version of what happened, but nevertheless I think it describes a significant trend that led to English country music, Irish traditional music, Australian bush music etc. being largely played on the Anglo.

Edited August 6, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[malcolm clapp]

***WARNING***    ***WARNING***  ***WARNING***

No justification was given for the estimate given in the quotation above. It should not be accepted uncritically because it was found with a google search. Data found on the internet may be false, as may be the expectation of finding correct answers.  Although I have repeated this estimate, I have made no attempt to verify its validity.  I have no desire to create or perpetuate intentional deception resulting in injury to another person and accept no liability in this matter.

***WARNING***    ***WARNING***  ***WARNING***

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Love the disclaimer, Stephen.

However, you do not mention whether or not any animals were killed or injured as a consequence of your research...

 

Enjoy your Hayden!

[malcolm clapp]

Malcolm and Nanette:  this site states that  “Approximately 150,000 people play the accordion in Australia today.”  I wonder how that estimate corresponds to your personal experience of local instrument percentages and might influence your notion of how many concertina players there might be in Australia.

 

I can well believe that there are 150,000 accordions in Australia, many owned by "dabblers" I'm sure. That would be a combined figure for piano accordions, button accordions of all systems and probably concertinas too. I think that 150,000 people who play the accordion might be a bit exagerated. but that is only an opinion which I cannot back up with statistics.

[JimLucas]

I think that 150,000 people who play the accordion might be a bit exagerated. but that is only an opinion which I cannot back up with statistics. 

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But if all of them really did play, I'm sure you'd hear (about) it.

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: as someone noted. . . .the survey that's posted at the Free-Reed Center website is flawed. . . . for example, responses from Massachusetts seem to have gotten lost entirely. . . . .however, there are some interesting instrument/gender correlations. . . . .i don't remember the figures off the top of my head. . . . .but the english was way ahead of the anglo with respect to female players. . . . .and for that there's a long tradition..............allan

[Peter Brook]

The answer is 4 (if the question is about changing light bulbs)

 

1) treble

2) tenor

3) bass

4) and a conductor!

 

or just one called Dave Townsend (Who combines all four roles into one)

 

well you english players love that multi-part stuff...

[stuart estell]

Of course, if the player changing the lightbulb is a Hayden system player, then they'll change the lightbulb the same way each time.

[Jeff Stallard]

Of course, if the player changing the lightbulb is a Hayden system player, then they'll change the lightbulb the same way each time.

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Umm.....what?