35 Key Crane Duet

[Jim2010]

Is a 35 key Crane duet appreciably smaller and lighter than a 48 key model? If anyone could tell me some specifications of the two I would appreciate it. Also the relative frequency of the 35 key being available for sale in the US. Thank you.

[Daniel Hersh]

4 hours ago, Jim2010 said:

Is a 35 key Crane duet appreciably smaller and lighter than a 48 key model? If anyone could tell me some specifications of the two I would appreciate it. Also the relative frequency of the 35 key being available for sale in the US. Thank you.

 

The standard width for an English-made vintage concertina is 6" measured across the flats, and I would guess that would be typical for a 35b Crane.  My 48b Lachenal Crane is slightly larger - 6.5" measured the same way.  I'm sure a 35b would be lighter than a 48b, but I have never found my 48b to feel heavy.  My other primary concertina is a 30b Anglo, and I don't feel I'm handling something noticeably heavier when I put down the Anglo and pick up the Crane. 

 

I don't think that any Cranes are frequently available for sale in the US.   I would guess that more 48b ones were made than 35b - it's my sense that 48b was the most common size.  But the demand for 35b instruments is lower, so they may stay available for sale longer when they do come to market.  To add to the picture, I think there were a few 42b Cranes made too...

[Mike Jones]

My 35b bone buttoned mahogany ended Crane (by Lachenal) has a mass of 2kg and measures 6.25 inches across the flats, the same dimensions as my 30b C/G Anglos and 48b English.

 

My 48b Rosewood ended steel buttoned Crane (also Lachenal) has a mass of 3kg and measures 6.6 inches across the flats, the same dimensions as my G/D Anglos

 

My 48b Rosewood ended bone buttoned Crane (another Lachenal) is slightly lighter (a few grams only) and the same measurement across the flats.

 

As Daniel says, after a while you don't really notice the weight difference when swapping between systems or sizes. I find the 35b Crane slightly more limiting than the Anglos or 48B Cranes but can still play approx 90% of Morris tunes and most other tunes on it without a problem.

 

I'm unable to comment on availability in the US but in the UK i've only seen single figure numbers of each size for sale in the past couple of years and certainly fewer 35K than 48K

[Little John]

10 hours ago, Jim2010 said:

Is a 35 key Crane duet appreciably smaller and lighter than a 48 key model?

 

On average, yes, but there's a lot of variation. On size, I suspect most 35s are 6 1/4". In the past I've owned two Crabb 35s. I didn't measure them but I'd say there were that size. [I also had a Crane and Sons 42 button which was 6 1/4".] My 48 button Crabb Crane was 6 5/8", which I think was pretty well the standard size. Certainly it's likely to be the minimum size as you need that much space to fit in the 28 right hand reeds. [Curiously it means wasted space in the left hand reed pan of a 48.]

 

On weight it depends a lot on materials. Mike Jones' instruments seem exceptionally heavy at 2kg and 3kg. Both the 42 and the 48 mentioned above came in below 3lb, i.e. less than 1.4kg while my Dipper 51 button comes in at about 2kg (also 6 5/8"). The Crabb is relatively light because it has aluminium reed frames, action and end plates.

 

Whether or not these differences are "appreciable" is subjective to a large extent. Sitting down to play with one end resting on a leg I'd say not, but standing to play with no support for the instrument there is a big difference between a 4lb + instrument and a sub 3lb one.

 

LJ

[Jim2010]

Thank you Daniel, Mike, and Little John. Your information is very helpful.

[Mike Jones]

Jim,

my apologies, Little John noticed what i had failed to do. I read the wrong side of the scales the relative mass of the two types of Crane I cited are 2lbs and 3lbs not Kilos.

Mike

[Jim2010]

31 minutes ago, Mike Jones said:

Jim,

my apologies, Little John noticed what i had failed to do. I read the wrong side of the scales the relative mass of the two types of Crane I cited are 2lbs and 3lbs not Kilos.

Mike

Mike,

Thank you. Very good news. Thanks for checking.

Jim

[JimLucas]

7 hours ago, Mike Jones said:

My 35b bone buttoned mahogany ended Crane (by Lachenal) has a mass of 2 pounds and measures 6.25 inches across the flats, the same dimensions as my 30b C/G Anglos and 48b English.

 

My 48b Rosewood ended steel buttoned Crane (also Lachenal) has a mass of 3 pounds and measures 6.6 inches across the flats, the same dimensions as my G/D Anglos

 

[weights corrected per Mike's subsequent post]

 

I've just weighed and measured my 48-button Crane & Sons (made for them by Lachenal), also with rosewood ends and steel buttons.  It's 6-9/16" (i.e., a hair over 6½") across the flats, and 1.377 kg, which is a hair over 3 pounds.  FWIW, I remember that a 55-button, ebony-ended, Triumph(Crane) New Model had the same size ends and weight as that Crane & Sons, so it seems that there's more to it than just the number of buttons.

 

My 59-button, metai-ended Crane by C. Jeffries, on the other hand, is 2.1 kg (4.6 pounds) and 7" across the flats, so half again as heavy per inch as the 48 and 1-1/4 times as heavy per button.  Obviously more to it than just the number of buttons.

[Jim2010]

Thanks, Jim. That is very helpful to me.

[JimLucas]

I just checked the ButtonBox web site, and they have a 48-button Wheatstone Crane duet (from 1953) for sale.  It's at the bottom of this page.

 

Steel reeds in aluminum frames, so that should make it somewhat lighter than one with brass frames.

[Jim2010]

On 4/30/2020 at 6:19 PM, JimLucas said:

I just checked the ButtonBox web site, and they have a 48-button Wheatstone Crane duet (from 1953) for sale.  It's at the bottom of this page.

 

Steel reeds in aluminum frames, so that should make it somewhat lighter than one with brass frames.

Thanks, Jim. I just wrote to them asked what it weighs.

 

Edited May 4, 2020:  Received reply: It weighs 2lbs 6.2oz  and is 6-5/8" across the flats

Edited May 4, 2020 by Jim2010

[MatthewVanitas]

I own a 35b Crane (not planning to sell it) that I bought here. Iirc when I found the ad it was a good six months old because nobody jumped on it.

 

I would suggest you place a "WTB" ad on the Sales sub here, asking for a 35b or 42b Crane, and just be prepared to wait patiently, and check the sub once a month or so to see if anyone posted WTS for a smaller Crane. You might also want to peruse Sales as far back as a year to see if anyone posted a Crane that never ended up moving.

[Jim2010]

1 hour ago, MatthewVanitas said:

I own a 35b Crane (not planning to sell it) that I bought here. Iirc when I found the ad it was a good six months old because nobody jumped on it.

 

I would suggest you place a "WTB" ad on the Sales sub here, asking for a 35b or 42b Crane, and just be prepared to wait patiently, and check the sub once a month or so to see if anyone posted WTS for a smaller Crane. You might also want to peruse Sales as far back as a year to see if anyone posted a Crane that never ended up moving.

Thanks Mathew. Good suggestion. What do you play on your Crane 35?

[MatthewVanitas]

26 minutes ago, Jim2010 said:

Thanks Mathew. Good suggestion. What do you play on your Crane 35?

Mainly I just played things like Irish slow airs, and some modern folksongs or pop music.

I haven't played concertina in ages, but when I get back to it as things settle I'll try to post more videos.

[Jim2010]

Has anyone ever encountered a 35b Crane with the original Salvation Army tuning? If I have read correctly, the pitch was 2 whole steps lower. Was it two steps lower, but otherwise still a=440 or something else? Thanks for any help.

[Little John]

3 hours ago, Jim2010 said:

Has anyone ever encountered a 35b Crane with the original Salvation Army tuning? If I have read correctly, the pitch was 2 whole steps lower.

 

I've never encountered it in a Crane. I've come across the idea somewhere else (probably on this forum) but I think it applied to Anglos.

 

LJ

[Wolf Molkentin]

28 minutes ago, Little John said:

 

I've never encountered it in a Crane. I've come across the idea somewhere else (probably on this forum) but I think it applied to Anglos.

 

LJ

 
I think I know where - if I‘m right, it was a rather vague (and IMO unprobable) idea ?

[Jim2010]

1 hour ago, Little John said:

 

I've never encountered it in a Crane. I've come across the idea somewhere else (probably on this forum) but I think it applied to Anglos.

 

LJ

You are correct. I rechecked the sources I was reading and I mistakenly assumed that the Booth 1888 Anglo tutor I was reading about referred to the Salvation Army Triumph (Crane) concertina I had read about previously. I'm sorry for the confusion.