Basic Amateur Recording Techniques

[JimLucas]

I am going to be cheeky and suggest you read all the don'ts and then experiment and see what works for you. There are several in this thread and I entirely agree with them if you are going to send your recordings to a professional for processing, but for simple home use why not try things out for yourself and aim to produce something you are satisfied with.

Surely it's possible to retain the unaltered original (and send an unaltered copy to a professional) and still make any number copies with various combinations of editing and effects. It's not just an either-or situation.

[Dirge]

OK Panel; see if this makes sense.

 

I am not going to get into recording and sich. I would rather play the concertina, and I certainly have better uses for my money. All I want is the basic that will do the job; it will probably never have to record more than one concertina but might, I suppose, be asked to do a small ensemble occasionally. I am sure this will not become a new hobby. Certain.

 

It sounds like all of the suggestions will work, and are fairly idiot proof, so it comes down to money. I like the idea of an independent device so I'm not tied to the computer while practicing. I like to sit in the lounge and keep half an eye on the view for choice. That's when Sal's out, anyway. And when she's in she might well want the computer anyway. So I think the usb mic' is out.

 

After that it looks like the prices go H2 H4 Tascam Edirol, with significant jumps between them and I think that probably I would be paying for extra features that I not only would not use, but would positively resent having to ignore. (Microsoft's "helpful" features of the 'I see you are writing a letter' type drive me up the wall.)

 

So for my purposes the H2 looks like it. Quite enough for me.

 

Anyone see a good reason why I might regret not going for a higher spec., given my complete lack of interest in this branch of music, if that's what it is?

 

(Mike, you remember my description of how having to deal with electronics affects me. Well the idea of looking things up on Melodion.net has the same effect...)

 

(editted to add a picture to make you all jealous.)

Edited November 17, 2009 by Dirge

[RatFace]

I have the Tascam dr-07. In retrospect I should have got the Zoom H2 I think... probably... though I don't think there's much between them. Tascam has variable speed playback... Zoom has metronome/tuner... in practice I would probably never use either! The Tascam builtin mics sound a bit trebley and more noisy... but I suspect the Zoom mics are less noisy only because the sound is too bassy. The 4 mics in the Zoom are probably no benefit. There are some quality comparisons here.

 

In practice I use the builtin mics only to record quickly. If I want a better sound quality I plug in a little sony ecm-ms907 - and this will result in a sound that is identical on all recorders (pretty much), and quite OK for field recordings. If I want better than that I use two studio mics going through an external pre-amp - and that gives almost totally hiss-free recording quality.

 

The ability to be used as a USB mic sounds appealing with the Zoom. However, you can just plug a 1/8" cable from the line out of the tascam (or anything else) into your computer's line input and use it like that too. This is _really_ useful, because the pre-amps in most consumer sound cards are rubbish, so the microphone input is very noisy.

 

Zoom H2 comes with a power adapter which is good! Tascam doesn't, which is annoying!

 

I see no reason to go for a higher spec device, because however good the device, you can always do better by plugging in external mics (and then it barely matters what device you're recording onto!).

 

If, maybe in the future, you want to record with external mics I've been very happy with two Rode NT5s and a DMP3 preamp/phantom power unit.

 

Edit: What I'm saying is: the Zoom H2 is a good choice!

Edited November 17, 2009 by RatFace

[Dirge]

Thanks Danny, now I can really look at prices. They seem expensive here; something to do with changing exchange rates I expect, so it'll probably be on overseas purchase.

[Alan Day]

Thanks Danny, now I can really look at prices. They seem expensive here; something to do with changing exchange rates I expect, so it'll probably be on overseas purchase.

WE used Danny's home made recordings on English International, they were excellent

(and his playing)

Al

[Chris Timson]

If, maybe in the future, you want to record with external mics I've been very happy with two Rode NT5s and a DMP3 preamp/phantom power unit.

 

Don't know the DMP3 (I use a Mackie 800r) but I can vouch for the NT5 as an excellent instrumental mic and very good value for money - though a stereo pair does cost more than a Zoom H2 complete!

 

Chris

[Chris Drinkwater]

I used an Edirol R09 to record Rosie playing some tunes on her melodeon and concertina in her living room, way back in the autumn of 2007, just for my own benefit. I downloaded them onto my PC and burned a CD of them. Following her death, earlier this year, I used the best of these tune recordings and some other recordings of Rosie singing, to produce a high quality tribute CD, with help from a certain Ralphie Jordan, who was kind enough to use his expertise with his virtual recording software, to produce a master CD. I have to say that I am amazed at the quality of the recordings that the Edirol and similar digital recorders like the cheaper Zoom range, produce. They are great for home recording, particularly, a single instrument like a concertina, providing there are no planes flying overhead, the phone doesn't ring and the cats don't meeow whilst you are recording. And it is dead easy to dowload your recordings onto your PC and burn a CD. They use a SD flash card like you use in digital cameras to store the recordings and because they are digital, they have no moving parts to make a noise while you record, unlike a cassette recorder.

 

Chris

[Tootler]

I am going to be cheeky and suggest you read all the don'ts and then experiment and see what works for you. There are several in this thread and I entirely agree with them if you are going to send your recordings to a professional for processing, but for simple home use why not try things out for yourself and aim to produce something you are satisfied with.

Surely it's possible to retain the unaltered original (and send an unaltered copy to a professional) and still make any number copies with various combinations of editing and effects. It's not just an either-or situation.

 

Yes. That occurred to me after I posted my message. I do in fact retain the original recordings unaltered so that I can reprocess them if necessary.

 

I'm not sure I would want to send my amateur efforts to a professional recording engineer, though. I am sure he would have plenty rude things to say about them - and rightly so

 

Geoff

[Tootler]

 

After that it looks like the prices go H2 H4 Tascam Edirol, with significant jumps between them and I think that probably I would be paying for extra features that I not only would not use, but would positively resent having to ignore. (Microsoft's "helpful" features of the 'I see you are writing a letter' type drive me up the wall.)

 

 

The Edirol does not have any fancy features, except a reverb button which I have never used. It just provides a basic stereo recording device with built in stereo mics. It comes with a mains transformer and there are inputs for line in and an external mic. That's basically it.

 

Very straightforward to use and produces excellent results.

 

When I bought mine, it was the only device of its kind on the market. The two Zoom products came later and their pricing was likely to undercut Edirol.

 

Geoff

[Kautilya]

Go for the Zoom H2 or H4 (I always mix up but I think the 2 has four mics and the 4 has 2) but buy the cheaper one - I see new they are from 153 to around 160 quid. U can always sell on later with little loss and they dont seem to go wrong.

 

Dead easy to use out of the box -- and u can stick it in your pocket and use cheap SD camera cards to download after the pub, or attach it to your PC and play in your bedroom. I like Audacity for playing back and slowiung down and repeating phrases to learn or see what was played wrong, but seems it is not so good for editing, but it is free!

 

If H2 is good enough for:

Joglaresa to record their gigs by sticking it on the floor www.joglaresa.com

and good enough for hatchetjob for Web interviews with the hi=tech gliterati

[On url below the interviewer is on H2, the interviewee is coming direct into the computer through Skype and the hum is a monster power four gig ram quad duo bazongo Intel turbo specially built PC even tho wrapped in a blanket... that shows the sensitivity of the H2 which can also be used to aim in various directions

 

http://hatchetjob.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=498686

 

... then it is good enough for you too.

 

Hatchetjob says H2 ' should be absolutely fine for him'

Hatchetjob uses Mixcraft to edit as hates 'complicated' Audacity but it costs about 40 quid.

[David Levine]

I have owned and used both the Edirol R-09 and the Zoom H2. I much prefer the Olympus LS-10 over either of those. The Olympus has a better quality outer shell (metal rather than plastic), has much better build quality, is slimmer, accepts SD cards up to 4GB and also has two tiny built in speakers, which are very handy for monitoring. It turns on faster than the other two and the recording quality is at least as good. Finally, it is slimmer than either the Zoom or the Edirol, and can be carried nicely in the pocket. It is capable of tripod mount. The only downside is that it is a bit heaver, probably a function of the better overall quality. It costs about the same as the Edirol or Zoom. I would buy the LS-10 again. I have been delighted with it.

[Alan Day]

I cannot stress enough the useful effect of these recorders (any)It is impossible for you to gauge the way you are playing unless you listen carefully to it. If you have a group, make some time to listen and discuss where you can improve, or how you can improve within the group. I use my recorder almost daily to experiment with tunes, writing tunes, copying old cassette tunes/songs .The other thing of course is that you get used to being recorded and it is a valuable experience for those entering a recording studio for the first time. It is not scary ,they are there to help you, but many freeze because it is an experience that they have not had before.

Al

[hjcjones]

Microsoft's "helpful" features of the 'I see you are writing a letter' type drive me up the wall

 

Me too. On one occasion when the paperclip popped up I typed into the box, "Just f*** off and leave me alone" (only without the asterisks). It did!

[hjcjones]

The recording quality of all these little devices is excellent. What's likely to let you down is the environment you're recording in, compared with a purpose-built studio.

 

The other thing is the quality of the mics, although the built in ones on these devices do seem to be remarkably good. However it can by useful to be able to plug in better-quality external mics. Most of these devices seem to have miniature jack inputs, but one of the things which made me choose the H4 was that it has full-size 1/4" jack and XLR inputs, so I can use other mics without needing an adaptor, which can often be a source of crackles and clicks. It even has phantom power. As well as using these for mics, I can also take a stereo feed off the mixing desk to record my band.

[asdormire]

 

It sounds like all of the suggestions will work, and are fairly idiot proof, so it comes down to money. I like the idea of an independent device so I'm not tied to the computer while practicing. I like to sit in the lounge and keep half an eye on the view for choice. That's when Sal's out, anyway. And when she's in she might well want the computer anyway. So I think the usb mic' is out.

 

 

(editted to add a picture to make you all jealous.)

 

That view is gorgeous my friend.

 

Alan

[Kurt Braun]

Has anyone here had hands on experience with the new Zoom Q3?

 

Thanks

[Chris Timson]

The other thing is the quality of the mics, although the built in ones on these devices do seem to be remarkably good. However it can by useful to be able to plug in better-quality external mics.

Agree with all of that. I have a Rode NT4, which is basically 2 NT5's in a single body. It normally uses phantom power but crucially it takes a battery as well and even comes with a cable suitable for plugging into the line in socket on a field recorder (or even a minidisc recorder). Again, it's pretty expensive but the results you can get with this mic and a good recorder are nothing short of breathtaking. And it's very easy to use.

 

That view is gorgeous my friend.

 

Plus he's safe from rising sea levels as well!

 

Chris

Edited November 18, 2009 by Chris Timson

[Marien]

Dirge,

 

In addition to Danny's remark about the H2 this is my idea about the Zoom H4. I think zoom H2 is quite similar but I never saw one. The Zoom-H4 has some extras which I don't use. I am not sure about differences in microphone quality. To my opinion the built in microphones of the Zoom H4 are very good - not only for concertina but also to tape the full acoustic sound of stringed instruments. It is possible to plug in better microphones but - so far - I did not need that.

 

If I remember well there was an adaptor that came with the H4 but don´t ask me where it is... I use batteries to avoid any risk on a 50Hz noise and the only real problem is that I should keep in mind is to have enough power and reload the batteries in time.

 

What I like in the Zoom-H4 is that it is good against studiofobics - it is very easy to handle.

 

It fits on a camera tripod. Switch it on and press a button 2 times, A red light gives you a warm feeling and tells you that it is busy recording. Squeeze a tune and afterwards press the same button again. Now you have a recording. Switch it off and start your PC.

 

Now the worst part . Get your hands on the CABLE that comes with the H4. Plug it in the USB port of your PC and connect it to the H4. It requires some button presses on the H4 and on the PC. The H4 acts as a hard disk of your computer and your recordings will be in a folder called STEREO. Copy the sound files to your computer. Check the recording in a media player.

 

I think the actions are quite similar on a H2(?).

 

If the recording was too loud then there is a switch on the H4 to adjust the input level of the microphone and start all over again.

 

If the recording is okay then you can edit it (if you have the software). Another way is to send it to somebody who does it for you. Things I often do is removing the non musical beginnings and ends - normalise the sound level - add a tiny bit of delay when the recording is very dry.

 

Is there anyone who knows both the H2 and H4 and can tell more about the real differences between the two?

 

Marien