Mikefule

A good place to start that particular discipline is playing the scale along the row. Playing C on the C row right hand, you'd play C push, 1st finger, button 1 D pull, 2nd finger, button 2 E push, 2nd finger, button 2 F pull, 3rd finger, button 3 then change finger to: G push, 2nd finger button 3 A pull , 3rd finger, button 4 B pull, little finger, button 5 C push, 3rd finger, button 4 This gives you a specific reason to change fingers on consecutive notes on button 3. It makes playing the scale easier and more fluid. Coming back down the scale the fingering is the opposite, but still changing on button 3. A useful technique for pushing one button repeated with the SAME finger is to keep the finger still in relation to the hand, and move the whole hand to tap the rhythm.

First of all, if a musician is able to do either of two techniques, they can choose, whereas if they only know the "leave your finger on and use the bellows" technique, they can't choose. It may sound disconcertingly staccato to you now because it isn't what you're used to. However, a wise man once told me that "the music is in the gaps between the notes." What the "finger off and back on" technique gives you is a clear start to the note. If you hold a button down and pump the bellows in and out, you'll hear each note tail off as the bellows slow down to stop, and each note start slowly and change in volume and pitch as the bellows start and speed up in the new direction. If you lift your finger off the button and put it back on, you are using the bellows to provide the pressure, and the valve to define the start and end of the note. The finger only needs to leave the button by a few millimetres. The perfect technique would keep your finger in contact with the button, even though the button was being released and pressed again. (For a deliberate staccato, of course, you can chose to stab down onto the buttons from some distance. Keith Kendrick once told me it may help to think of the accompaniment as "tuned percussion" by which he meant mainly a series of short crisp notes that don't overwhelm the melody. Ways to improve your technique: Practise it. Look for places where you can use duplicates. I sometimes play the same note consecutively on different buttons, sometimes in opposite bellow directions, depending on context. Some people alternate between two (or more?) fingers on the same button. I do this only rarely. Play quietly, practise slowly, keep the tension out of your fingers and arms as much as possible. Only expend the energy that you need to expend, and don't fight yourself or the instrument. I am not a guru, merely a keen player who is constantly striving to play as well as possible. Others may have better ideas than mine.

Interesting idea. My former partner sang in a cathedral choir when she was young girl, and did reasonably high grades on violin and piano and as an adult she could play piano quite well. She said she'd never heard of "modes" and it must be some sort of "weird folky stuff" (or words to that effect). I now have a (step)son who took lessons (not leading to grades) in bass with a view to playing jazz, jazz funk, and the like. His lessons were very detailed but not following the formal syllabus, and he covered modes extensively. I had no musical education at all — we didn't even have a record player in the house until I was 17 — and came across modes only by looking it up after someone described a tune to me as "modal". As an adult, I have learned theory piecemeal, reading a bit, trying a bit, and concentrating on the parts that seemed most relevant to what I was trying to achieve. The idea of modes interests me largely because of the maths/physics involved, but as a musician I have only found 2 modes to be relevant to my repertoire on a regular basis.

I absolutely agree. However, I was responding to a thread started by a complete beginner, and was trying not to distract with terminology. But I said that you can play [tunes] in "a sort of D of the C row" and this was not false or incorrect, merely lacking in detail. The "sort of D" is the Dorian sort! As a harmonica and Anglo player, owning various instruments in different keys, I simply think of Dorian as "on the pull". In folk music, we know and understand the concept of the modes, even if we can't remember all the Greek names. For comparison, I have known people who studied music more formally and claim never to have come across the concept of modes. I am aware that the formally defined melodic and harmonic minor scales exist, although I have never learned them rigorously. I am also aware of the existence of the 8 modes although, as I hinted, I'd have to look up which one's called after which ancient Greek cultural stereotype. Only 2 of them seem crop up regularly in my mainly Morris repertoire: Ionian and Dorian — on the push and on the pull.

Being able to read music helps, but you need to compensate for the fact that the dots may be written in any key, but your instrument will only play in a limited range of keys. You need to adapt and overcome. Put simply, you have C major, G major, and the associated "modes". By "modes" I mean you can play tunes such as "Drunken Sailor" or "Rakes of Kildare" in a sort of D on the C row, even though you do not have all of the notes of a proper D minor key. A full D minor scale has a B flat in it. However, the real trick is to learn how to borrow notes from the "other row". As someone referred to above there is a magic in the keyboard layout that works to help you, but sometimes seems to be an obstacle. The more you play the 20b, the more you will understand the instrument, and how music works. It's amazing, rewarding, and frustrating. Mathsy bit: If you take the 8 notes of the C major scale, starting with the note that sounds the same as the C push on 1st button on the C row, right hand, there are theoretically 128 ways of playing the C major scale over 1 octave. That is, every note except F natural appears twice, so there are 2 x 2 x 2 x 1 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 128 combinations. In real life, you will only tend to use snatches of 4 or so consecutive notes from a handful of these options.

It is possible to learn without a book. Using a book is only one of many options. The 20b is less versatile than a 30 (obviously) and a bit harder to play, but it's very rewarding. I own two 30s and two 20s, and they all get played. Find the main cross row scale options. Experiment. Always try to release the button and press it again when playing two notes on the same button, whether in the same bellows direction or not. Pick out tunes by ear: simple ones like When the Saints, Oh Susanna, Red River Valley, Donkey Riding, Lord of the Dance, English Country Gardens. Practise for a few minutes every day. 10 minutes a day is better than 70 minutes once a week. Most of all, have fun.

The tune is also "The Walk of the Twopenny Postman": a Morris dance tune for a dance from Fieldtown (Leafield) in Oxfordshire. https://themorrisring.org/sites/default/files/sheetmusic/fieldtownWalkoftheTwopennyPostman.pdf

I would have thought so. However, I am only speculating.

If it were to make room for for the mechanical action, then the chamfering would all point towards the middle of the hexagon. In one example it points away. Pitch is defined by how fast the reed oscillates. Tone is affected by a number of factors, but I cannot see how this chamfering would affect it. My guess is that it is to smooth and the air flow into the hole, possibly to aid with starting the reed to move when the button is pressed. Some reeds are harder to start than others.

You have interspersed my comments with yours in such a way that it is difficult for me to separate them in a way that allows me to reply clearly point by point, but I'll do my best. 1) If you change rows and keep the same fingering, you are not merely changing octaves. The two rows are a 5th apart. This is the simplest transposition on an Anglo: play along the C row to get C. use the same fingering on the G row and you've transposed to G. Or vice versa. 2) No. Quite the opposite. With very few exceptions, you can't change rows in a cross row style and keep the same fingering. What I'm saying is (on a CG) that if you find that a tune needs the melody to stray down below the tonic onto the left hand when you play in C, transpose it to G. This means that you can find the notes below the tonic by borrowing them from the right hand C row. This way, you've changed key (from C to G) but you've gained the ability to keep the melody all, or mostly, on the right hand and the accompaniment on the left. One of the tricky challenges for the harmonic player is when you need to play the melody and the accompaniment on the same hand for part fo a tune. It can be done, but the instrument presents challenges and limitations on what can be done. Here's where a cross row style enables you to find a solution. In real life, if you play with other musicians, you can't just change key to make it easier. However, if you have more than one instrument, you have choices. I play mainly a GD instrument. If I learn a tune in G where the melody goes down onto the left hand, I can transpose it to D to keep the melody mainly on the right. If I then transfer that new fingering to a CG box, I am back into G (like all the other musicians in the session) but still with the melody on the right hand and accompaniment on the left. 3) My mistake. I am used to thinking in terms of the GD instrument that I play most of the time and I wrote "D" when I meant to write "G". 4) With the exception of a few specific tunes, I have never been a melody only player. I set out to learn a harmonic cross the row style from day 1. As for the Anglo "feel and sound". For me, compared to other squeeze boxes, the distinctive sound of the Anglo is when the quirks of the keyboard require you to paint the accompaniment with a few brush strokes rather than colouring it all in with full chords. This is particularly the case when playing in the "second key" (G on a CG, D on a GD, etc.) and even more the case if you move further round the cycle of 5ths — for example, D on a CG. The accompaniment then includes a lot of parallel bare octaves, or part chords made up of pairs of notes, rather than full rick chords. Add this to the inherent "crunchiness" that comes from the push pull of the bellows and that is the Anglo sound. Of course, there are others who prefer to play single lines of melody, and cross the rows to keep bars or phrases in a single bellows direction, and they get a different sound. 5) No, two separate things. The first is specific to the instrument: the challenge of taking a tune in D or A and playing it on an instrument that is optimised for C and G. The instrument imposes various limitations on the available harmonies. The second is specific to the musician: having a set of dots in front of you in one key, but playing them in another. 6) A pedal point is a note that is sustained (or repeated) as the underlying chord changes. For example, the note G appears in G major, C major, and E minor. If a phrase of a tune has those chords in succession, but you play a low G throughout the phrase, that would be a pedal point. Although you are playing the same note, it sounds different because at one moment it is the root of the chord, at another moment it is the 5th, and at another moment it is the 3rd. Same note, different function. Similarly, the note D can be the root of D major, the 5th of G major, or the 3rd of B minor, so you might play the note D throughout a phrase that passes through those 3 chords.

Yes, a snap or a "Scottish snap" is a pair of notes where the first is shortened and that time is added to the second. It goes "da-daa" rather than "daa-da". It is a very Scottish sound, although not exclusively so.

The simplest possible transposition on an Anglo is when you can play a tune along the row. Change to the other row and "Hey presto!" You've transposed it. However, that is only possible or desirable on a certain sort of tune. If you play across the rows, it follows that if you change the row for the starting note, you will inevitably have to change some of the fingering. This sounds complicated at first — indeed, it sometimes is — but it opens up a world of possibilities on the instrument. Imagine a 30 b CG Anglo: Play a tune that starts on C and goes up the scale of C. If you swap rows and start on G, that's the simplest transposition. (Or vice versa, of course.) However, play a tune that not only goes up from C but also goes down below the tonic, and some of the melody has to be on the left hand. This puts all sorts of constraints on any accompaniment you play. But if you take that same tune, swap rows, and start on the G, and when you go below the tonic, you can do so by borrowing right hand notes from the C row. That leaves your left hand unconstrained for playing a full chordal accompaniment. Now take another tune that starts on C and goes up beyond high C into the very squeaky notes on the G row. Instead, start it on the G on the left hand of the C row (or the left hand of the accidental row) and you can play it in G, and when you get to the high part of the tune, you will still be in the comfortable part of the register. More than that, the differences in fingering open up and suggest different accompaniments. I find that playing in C on a CG encourages me to play a full and rich accompaniment. However, the same tune transposed to D may have a more sparse accompaniment, with more bass notes, octave notes, pedal points and isolated "stabs" at individual notes or pairs. As a result, although the arrangement is less "full and rich" it often feels more fresh and alive. My main instrument is GD, and when I started, I loved playing in G but was quite intimidated by playing in D. Now, I prefer it. It brings out more of an Anglo feel and sound. (As an aside, another way to achieve this sparse but fresh and alive accompaniment and "Anglo feel and sound" is to play on a 20 b.) The next step of transposing on a CG is to move into F or D. If you play mainly a single line of melody with little or no accompaniment, this is just a matter of learning fingering patterns. If you want to do more complex accompaniments, it may take a lot of work. An enjoyable half way house is to play tunes like Rakes of Kildare that are modal: the key of the second note of the major scale (so playing in D on the C row. These tunes often need few or no accidentals. They can be a real palate cleanser after playing a lot of tunes in the major key. Another approach to transposing is to take music written in, say, G, D or A, but sight read it as if it were in C (or whatever the primary key of your instrument is.)

I think that in the context of folk/traditional music, "swing" is a descriptive word rather than a word with a fixed single technical meaning. I'd say that a tune swings when you can hear the shape of the phrases: subtle changes of emphasis which match the (imaginary?) dancers surging forwards and retreating back to place. It's the music flowing in phrases of 2 bars, and the phrases of 2 bars working together in bigger phrases of 4 bars, and so on into 8 bars. It's moving past the simple number of beats in the bar, to an awareness of the number of bars in the phrase. It's about the tune having changes of momentum rather than merely a relentless driving beat. How to achieve this? Spiritually or artistically by knowing the tune well, by whistling or humming it when you're driving, or in the shower, or in time with your steps when you're out for a walk. Technically, by changes of volume (bellows pressure) and subtle changes of emphasis, and by leaving gaps between the notes. Or something like that.

Most forums have some sort of timer mechanism to stop spammers (or bots) making large numbers of consecutive posts. Probably what happened is you accidentally pressed the send button twice in the first place and triggered this then got into some sort of a loop where you misunderstood what was on the screen and pressed send again, triggering the 23 seconds message again. I had it happen to me once in a different forum. Lucky you escaped — or you could still be there, slowly starving to death at your keyboard, clicking away every 22 seconds...

I have always felt that the dots are there for when you're learning, and for when you need reminding, but the best playing is when you know the tune well enough to play "by heart". It is not a test or a competition. Whether your repertoire is 10 tunes or 100 tunes, and whether they are short and simple or long and complex, the only thing that matters is if you get joy from playing them. I play a small part of my repertoire as near as possible every day. I have played some of those tunes almost daily for many years. Other parts of my practice repertoire change, either with a new tune, or one that I had forgotten suddenly surfacing in my memory. My typical session is made up of happy thrash through some tunes I know well, followed by a couple of tunes I can play but which need polishing, followed by a few minutes on something I'm learning, then a happy thrash through some tunes I know well. I occasionally include some scales (parallel octave work) and chord progressions. Another palate cleanser is to translate tunes from G to D or vice versa. I mainly play on my Dipper GD. I gave up counting my repertoire a few years ago. It is not wide by many peoples' standards but I would guess that I could play 30 to 50 tunes in a row from memory, and find a few more with a bit of effort. Each individual tune represents time spent to learn it, but the real learning comes when I can play the tune on autopilot. Then I start to find new fingerings and new accompaniments. No rendition is ever perfect, but I play tunes I have known for 10 years far differently from how I played them 5 years ago. My personal preference is a fairly small repertoire played well, rather than a wide repertoire played in a generic style. Each tune develops one or more arrangements as the more I play it, the more I really hear it. Do not measure yourself against other players, and certainly do not see number of tunes or speed of playing as the sign of being a good player. The one and only valid reason to play is for the joy it gives you. My own repertoire is mainly Morris tunes and a few "session standards" but with occasional oddities. I'm learning some Hank Williams tunes at the moment. It's surprising how they require a different approach to the instrument.

It's many years since I bought one, but I believe that when I bought my Marcus, they offered a Jeffries layout. I had good service from Marcus and it was a nice box.

I'm going to be very blunt because I think you would be making an expensive mistake. With your suggested layout, you get one of every note, with some duplicates. However, the whole point of the Anglo layout is the Richter tuning, and the way that chords and arpeggios fall naturally to hand. A good 3rd row layout builds on that in a natural way. For example, on a standard CG: On the C row, left hand, play buttons 3 4 5 and you get CEG = C major. Move the index finger to button 4 of the accidental row and you get A minor which is a chord you play a lot in tunes in C. So one finger moves and the chord changes between two chords that feature a lot and often follow each other. Now move to the G row and play buttons 3 4 5 and you get G B D = G major. Move the index finger to button 4 of the C row and you get E minor. In each case, you've moved the same finger in the same manner and gone from the major chord based on the tonic, to the minor chord based on the 6th. I could give other examples. Point is that there is a purpose to the standard layout of the accidental row. It may seem illogical at first, but those extra buttons are so often where you need them. This is this sort of thing that makes the 30 button Anglo a genuine development of the basic 20 b layout. I can do more on my 30s than my 20s, but the skills are transferrable: I can play my 30 like a 20, or I can use the extra options of the 3rd row. Your suggested version gives you every note, but only by making the accidental row follow the Richter tuning pattern in C, you are making a pattern that does not help to group "like minded" notes together for playing a tune. The other thing is that you have labelled the buttons a little bit like a DG instrument rather than the more common GD. It's inside out, and you've lost many of the standard cross row scales that Anglo players rely on. I'm all for improvement, or minor tweaks to suit a particular repertoire or style, but nearly 200 years of development based on experience should not be disregarded willy-nilly. Your proposed layout would be unique, and would need a complete new set of skills to play, and those skills would not be transferrable to other instruments. If you want to play an Anglo with maximum chromatic opportunities, buy a 38 button. If you want a concertina with every note of the chromatic scale across 3 octaves, buy an English and work at it. They are wonderful instruments. If you want a push pull squeeze box with C/C# so you have every note somewhere, the C/C# melodeon already exists. Me, I prefer to play my standard 30 b as well as I can, as often as I can. From time to time, the wheel has been reinvented in a new form, but square ones will always remain the exception with an exceptionally limited resale market.

What they have done is include all the potential search terms they can think of in the description. Clearly someone who does not know much about the instrument. I would be surprised if they even have one for sale.

I have CG and GD. I used the same fingerings on both, which means that the key that I get depends on the instrument I've chosen. I play almost exclusively in a harmonic style, so working out and learning arrangements takes a lot of time. I can play some tunes in two keys, which means I can sometimes play a given tune in G on the CG and also in G on the GD. As for chord and note names, I can work them out when I need to, but I find that I mainly think in terms of what the notes and chords would be on the GD instrument. I think in GD because most Morris music is in G or D, and because G is a convenient key for easy sight reading because of where it sits on the stave. For example, three push notes on the left hand middle row = chord of G on the GD. The same fingering on the CG becomes the chord known as, "G, no hang on it's C. on this one."

Just because it's called a drone, doesn't mean it has to be held down as a drone for extended periods. I have owned 2 concertinas with drones, although none of my current instruments do. I used the drone mainly as just another bass note. Just as you can use your right thumb for short stabs on the air button, you can use your left thumb for short stabs on the drone button. If you want a drone sound, as in a sustained note underlying the melody, then think in terms of phrases of music. Don't use it just because you can fit it to a particular set of notes. Use it for a clearly defined phrase, or just a single bar, now and again, to provide contrast.

You need a small amount of slack. I like mine so that if I pull my thumb down, firmly, towards the side of my hand, it takes all the slack out, but without becoming noticeably tight across the back of the hand. If they're too tight, you will struggle to reach some of the more remote buttons.

A post or two ago, you were asking about a 20 button Anglo. Now you are asking about a duet. They are as different as guitar and banjo. You need first to get an idea which type of concertina you would like to play music on, because playing music is what it is all about. Anglo concertina. Every button gives two different notes depending on whether you squeeze or draw the bellows. Some people find this intuitive; others find it impossible. It is heavily biased towards a small range of popular keys. Despite that, it is incredibly versatile and can be played with a single lilting line of melody (like a flute or violin) or with melody and an interesting harmonic accompaniment (the "thinking man's piano" as Keith Kendrick calls it). The Anglo is good for Irish Traditional Music, and for various other traditional styles, particularly dance music. English concertina. Every button plays only one note, whether the bellows are squeezed or drawn. It is fully chromatic, so you can play in every key. The scale alternates between left hand and right hand all the way up, which some people find intuitive, and others find impossible. The English concertina is excellent for anyone wanting to play in any key from sheet music as there is a clear 1:1 relationship between buttons and lines/spaces on the stave. Many people play a single line of melody (like a flute or violin) but both simple and complex harmonies can be achieved by a skilled player. Duet concertina. There are several different keyboard layouts, and someone who can play one may not be able to play another. Duets all share the fact that the range of the left hand overlaps the range of the right hand, so that very complex piano-like arrangements can be played. Duets also share the fact that they are comparatively rare, even in the rarified world of the concertina. It would be unwise to choose between these three fundamentally different instruments solely on budget. You need to hear them being played, have a go on one of each, and talk to players. You need to fall in love with the idea of playing one, because making any progress on a concertina takes daily practice for a long time. My own story: my background is English Morris music. I learned first on harmonica, then on melodeon. I did my research and decided "on paper" that the English was the one for me. I then borrowed an English concertina for a month and tried it every day and made little progress. I then heard an English and an Anglo being played by experts on consecutive nights. I had a quick go on the Anglo and immediately knew it was for me. Partly this was because I was already familiar with the suck/blow, push/pull idea from harmonica and melodeon, but as I have learned more Anglo, I now find myself unable to play melodeon because of the many differences! Please, try before you buy: try listening, try playing, try talking to concertina players, and decide what you are setting out to achieve. All 3 are wonderful instruments, but they do not suit everyone equally.

A 20 button is not necessarily easier to play than a 30. A beginner may think that fewer buttons = less complication, but those duplicated notes on the third row of a 30 b can make some tunes very much easier. I own a couple of 30 buttons and a coupe of 20s. I find the 20s challenge me to improve my technique. If I were to buy a 20 b, I would look for a nice old Lachenal. I have played a few of the cheap Chinese 20 and 30 button instruments and they can be so clunky that they are off-putting to play. However, if you want to start playing Anglo from the position of a complete beginner, the obvious choice is the Rochelle, which is a 30 b in C/G.

Play with confidence. The bellows may be stiff at first but should loosen up after a few (hundred) hours of playing. Playing won't damage the bellows except if you pull them to a ridiculous extent, or chafe them in some way. They should be robust. Based on your description and the link posted by Anglogeezertoo, yes it is at the cheaper end, and you will soon discover its limitations. However, it's a great starting point.

This seems to be the right general approach. Ask for advice, listen carefully, but understand that everyone has their own experience and preconceptions that will influence the advice they give you. You're not choosing a car, where you might prioritise speed, or fuel economy, or luggage space, or social prestige, or some compromise between these factors. You're choosing something that has one purpose only: to make you enjoy playing it. It has to feel right for you. Concertina players are generally a lovely and welcoming bunch, but perhaps a little obsessive about one detail or another that particularly matters to them. Given that there are several distinct styles of playing each system, there are bound to be different opinions about any individual instrument.