Tootler

It can also result in a hair stuck in a reed producing silence at a crucial moment As well as "moothie" I have Flute (simple system) Several Whistles Recorders ranging in size from Sopranino to Contrabass Anglo Concertina I have tried piano and guitar in the past and couldn't get on with either. All in all, I am enjoying my retirement. I don't understand how I found time to fit work in back in those days Geoff

Wendy, Another thing you might consider is using your computer to slow the tune down to a tempo you can play along with. There are several possibilities. If you have a PC, then more recent versions of Windows media player will permit you to slow tunes down - you need to rip them on to your computer, but then it works well and this is what I use. If you have a Mac or Linux you will have to look elsewhere. You could try Audacity - this is really an audio editing program, but there is an option in the menu to playback slowed down. Both the above options are available for free download, but many people swear by a program called "The amazing slowdowner" (if I have it right) You have to pay for this one, but I don't think it is too expensive. All of these will slow the tune down without changing the pitch. This means you can hear the tune at a tempo you can follow while at the same time the key and the rhythm remain correct so you can play along with the recording. As you get used to the tune, you can then gradually speed up. Geoff

I agree wholheartedly. The kind of negativity that has sometimes been expressed in this thread does the cause of the concertina no good at all. It was that, and the notion that somehow the concertina was not a "serious" instrument that really annoyed me. I admit I did come on a bit strong and for that I apologise. I am also a recorder player and I have heard the same kind of thing all too often said about the recorder. "It's OK to let young children learn the recorder but only until they are old enough to learn a 'proper' instrument". The recorder is, in fact quite a limited instrument, but was fully accepted during the baroque era and is once again gaining similar acceptance and there are a number of virtuoso recorder players about, but it has taken time. Every instrument is limited in some way and part of the skill of learning an instrument is learning to make the most of the strengths of the instrument. Maybe the best concertina players are still in the process of learning what these strengths truly are and how to make the most of them. Incidentally I would add Alistair Anderson to the list some posted earlier - and not just because he has played some Telemann Geoff

Yes, yes, you are right, the concertina is definitely an inferior instrument, especially the C/G anglo. Please spread the word, it might bring down their prices a bit and shorten waiting lists I sympathise with the idea, but don't hold your breath. People mostly don't give a damn about establishment. I'd like to reply to Frank Edgley here. Frank, you probably misunderstood the general tone of the discussion. It's far from rubbish, doesn't have even a hint of elitism, or disdain for Irish music. Contrary, it was stated that the most impressive results of concertina playing is in Irish Music scene, regardless of personal preferences. Now some can like mopeds, consider them superb and be deeply hurt, when somebody, while comparing them to Volvos, notices that Volvo motor is more powerful and economical, has better stability and comfort. Too bad. I like bagpipes alot, I even like Irish music on bagpipes and can listen to them for hours, but I'd be silly to compare this kind of music to the emotional complexity, acheavable on instruments, that able to bend pitch, apply individual volume to notes and play harmony. It's not even "to each it's own", as I really dig pipes. But a one layer is less than two, and calling it "elitism" doesn't add volume control to the pipes, or bending capabilities to concertina. As been stated on this very forum in other discussion, Folk music is so attractive because it is "simple" and within the reach of many. It seems that a modern day concertina virtuoso is on the level of 12 year old piano student with some 3-4 years of study. For "me" Noel Hill is not fully a virtuoso not because he is playing concertina, but because he uses redundant pipe drone emulation, that are not helping the rhythm in any way, and he allows his chords not to be shaped. All well within the mainstream, and virtuoso can't stay in the mainstream. But that's only to "me". On the other hand, Edel Fox, while not a virtuoso, certainly getting there, as even now, her harmonies are better refined, that of Noel Hill, and overall I see young players in ITM forming a wave, that will beat the old masters. Of true virtuosos I can name only Niall Vallely. His style is dazzling , very modern, doesn't fit into any description or follows any school. But even he, when played duet with piano, sounds more humble, as piano player, not the greatest in the world, is able to play at very high level compared to Niall. Those lighning fast passages on AC, that dazzled a listener just a second ago, easily surpassed by passages on piano, but we, as listeners, are not as dazzled. We are used to such piano technique. It alone justifies calling concertina "not a serious" instrument. Just like we wouldn't sigh in awe listening to violin rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb, but would gather around to see it done on Jew's harp. The main thing is not to pretend, but to accept what's what and proceed happily. I find this a load of arrogant codswallop. Many people seem to equate virtuosity with playing very fast. It's not. Playing very fast is simply flashiness. I suspect that there the limitation on how fast you can play the Anglo Concertina is not in the players' fingers, but in the instrument itself. So the comparison Mischa just made between the anglo and the piano is like comparing apples with cabbages. There is a story, possibly apocryphal, about the Northumbrian Harmonica Player, Will Atkinson, when asked whether a young player who had just played a set of tunes at lightning speed was any good, retorted something along the lines of "Aye, very good lad, but it's not music". That to me sums up most very fast playing. Even the best musicians when they resort to playing very fast lose something of their musicality in the process. Playing very fast is simply an exercise in technique. Another thing is the discussion that I object to is the underlying assumption that if an instrument is not used in the classical orchestra it can't be a serious instrument. I also find that codswallop. Just because the concertina has largely been used in various forms of popular music does not make it a less serious instrument. As long as it is taken seriously by those who play the instrument and it is fit for purpose and capable of extending the capabilities of its best practitioners, then it is a serious instrument. And I suggest that that is true of all variants of the concertina. Incidentally I have heard Alistair Anderson play Telemann on the English Concertina and do so very effectively. Geoff

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Cicely Fox Smith. Here is a verse from Sailor Town You can hear the gulls crying, and the cheerful noise Of a concertina going, and a singer's voice— And the wind's song and the tide's song, crooning soft and low Rum old tunes in sailor town that seamen know. This poem was set to Music by Dick Miles. Casey's Concertina There are lights a-flashing in the harbour from the ships at anchor where they ride, And a dry wind going through the palm-trees and the long-low murmur of the tide … And there's noise and laughter in the foc's'le, and the bare feet beating out the tune To the sound of Casey's concertina underneath the great gold moon — Creaky old leaky concertina underneath the great gold moon. There's a milky glimmer on the water, and the lonely glitter of the stars, And a light breeze blowing up the roadstead, and a voice a-sighing in the spars, A-sighing, crying in the backstays, and the furled sails sleeping overhead, And the sound of Casey's concertina, singing of a time that's fled — Leaky old creaky concertina singing of a dream that's dead. This poem has also been set to music. Geoff

Seem like British journalists attitudes to traditional music were much the same 100 years ago as they are today. Geoff

When I bought mine, The shop had a Connor which had Lachenal reeds but was otherwise a new box. It had the best tone of all those I tried - various makes of hybrid - but the reeds were slow speaking, especially at the bass end, even for me as a relative beginner so I ended up with a Morse. Although the shop I went to did not have an Edgely, all the other hybrids I tried were very similar and I chose the Morse because for me it was the most comfortable to play and I have no reason to regret my decision. Geoff

Surely the answer to this is to rethink how you play the phrase and look for somewhere that you can work in a bellows reversal. Is there a point in the phrase where a little emphasis is needed? or where a slight break in the flow would enhance the interpretation? Then use a bellows reversal to enhance that or to put in that little bit of emphasis. Chopin was a pianist and wrote for piano, so did not have to worry about bellows reversals. You are not playing this piece on a piano, so you have to interpret it in a way that suits your instrument and that will make the most of the characteristics of your instrument. Bellows reversal is necessary, but surely the answer is not to see that as a problem, but to try and use it to advantage and to make it part of your interpretation of the piece.

The sheer enjoyment of playing. I don't play my concertina enough. I tend to pick up my flute first.

I'll second that. One of the beauties of a concertina is that it is relatively easy to add harmonies. You could always try a mouth organ of course - but you can't sing and play at the same time Not that I always can with my anglo Geoff

Button layouts for 30b C/G Anglos are available on this site As you can see, C# is available in three octaves on a 30b C/G Anglo. My Anglo has the Jeffries Layout rather than the Lachenal shown on the c.net link I gave above. The main difference is that the middle octave C# is available both on the push and the pull - very useful Geoff

Sounds like a grand opportunity to blow away some audience preconceptions! Have a listen to Brendan Power, follow the link to "New Irish Harmonica" CD Also have a look at Steve Shaw's Harmonica site. Geoff

Speaking as a relatively new anglo player. I am right handed, but I rest the instrument on my right knee and work the bellows with my left hand. It has caused me no problems in fingering and controlling the bellows. It just somehow seemed right that way so I reckon there are no rules, whatever works. I also have suffered some problems with RSI in the past and I did find at first that I had aches and pains. Some of it, I am sure, is simply getting used to a new instrument and you are naturally tense as you are not sure where everything is. I did find that if I could keep my wrists straight and relaxed, I had far fewer problems with discomfort while playing and I followed a tip I got from this forum. I bought some orthopaedic foam tubing and cut it in two lengthhways and put the "half tubes" over the bars under the hand straps. At the same time, I loosened the straps off slightly. This keeps the wrists in good alignment and makes holding the instrument comfortable. I did find that the aches I had when I started did eventually recede and I do not have problems when playing now. Geoff

As Tootler says,surprisingly not true. I've got a 3 row diatonic melodeon (ADG)and in a tune like Bear Dance with no accidentals I can do a quite interesting run............."A" part Em D C Bm Bm A G F#m Em D Em "B" part Em D Em D Bm A G F#m Em D Em The third row gives you the F#m but again some people can do amazing stuff with what one would think is a limited selection of chords. On a two row D/G with 8 Bass buttons you can almost play a scale of G. Just the F# is missing, which gives interesting possibilities for bass runs as well. Geoff

Well now, speaking as a guitarist of many years standing (please don't confuse that statement with any degree of talent and/or ability) and not really knowing a melodeon from a pile of firewood ( ), I would have thought that diatonic instruments without an extra row of useful accidentals were quite limited chord wise. I know just what you mean, having tried one myself for a short time. OTOH, I attended Julian Sutton's Melodeon class at the Sage for a while, and it was a real eye opener just how creative you could be with just 8 buttons on the left hand. Said Melodeon player was also in Julian's melodeon class. Then I discovered the Anglo concertina and I like the Irish approach to playing same - no chords Geoff

On the other hand, there is something to be said for not putting chords in - having seen guitarists having lengthy discussions over chords, and (on a separate occasion) for a melodeon player to pooh pooh a guitarists chords Let them sort their own chords out I say Geoff

I had problems with RSI in my right arm some years ago and have to be careful. Like Ken Coles, I fit foam over the hand rests of my Morse Anglo and this keeps my wrists straight and relaxed. By doing this I have had few problems. I have small hands and cannot reach the "remote buttons" (E/F, A/Bb on the LH and C#/Bb, A/D on the RH) on the accidental row but I can manage with my ring finger, so playing in that region involves some "finger dancing". As I am a relative beginner, this is taking a little time, but I am getting better all the time. Geoff

The first tunes I learnt on the Anglo were Jamie Allen and Salmon Tails for the reason others have mentioned earlier - I already knew them. They also seemed to fall nicely under the fingers. I learnt both mostly on the C row which meant I was crossing the rows right from the start. Winster Gallop also seems a good choice as it runs up and down the G row. Another one which works well on the G row is the Northumbrian jig Lamb Skinnet which is largely arpeggios so doesn't involve awkward bellows reversals, though you do have to find C# at one point. I have Dave Mallinson's book, Easy Peasy Tunes and an excellent book it is. Most of the later tunes are good [English] session stalwarts. Another book I found useful is "Piping Hot". It is a collection of tunes for the keyless Northumbrian Pipe Chanter so all the tunes are in an octave range, G to g and nearly all in the key of G or related modes and the tunes are graded. There is an interesting mixture of tunes, by no means all traditional Northumbrian pipe repertoire. I don't know how readily available it is as I got my copy in the Morpeth Bagpipe Museum. Geoff

No concertinas - insufficient capital these days and living on a pension However, a CD by Magpie Lane "Knock at the Knocker, Ring at the Bell", also a book of Graeme Miles songs - "Forgotten Songs Remembered" Geoff

Some thoughts: I play contrabass recorder. Although it has a two octave range, most of the time I am playing in the first octave and the times I go above A' (lowest note F) ie above an octave and a third are rare. On this basis, a bass concertina would not necessarily need the range of a normal treble instrument. A two octave range or even an octave and a fifth may be sufficient. Also is it possible to manage without the accidental row - or with only limited accidentals? Reducing the number of reeds should give room for larger reeds. Is this a worthwhile compromise? Secondly, bass instruments in general are slower speaking than their treble cousins and you have to learn to accommodate that. After a time you learn a knack of slightly anticipating your entry to give the instrument time to speak. In general bass lines move more slowly than the upper parts, so the slower response while not ideal, is something that can be accommodated. It all depends on how you anticipate using your instrument and what compromises you are prepared to accept. Geoff

(pedant mode) Kent actually. Cranbrook is roughly half way between Tunbridge Wells and Ashford. (/pedant mode) The last part of your comment was just a teeny bit disingenuous being as how the tune has been "adopted" by Yorkshire

I agree, the 8GBP handling charge is anything but nominal. My daughter was sent a quilt from the US with a declared value of 100USD. HMC did not charge import duty, but did add VAT of about 8.50GBP. The post office still levied a handling fee of 8GBP. Anything but nominal I would say. In fact, I object to the post office's handling charge which I think is excessive. True; but for me, there is more than just price that affects my decision of where to buy. If I am going to spend 1000 - 1500 pounds on a musical instrument, I want to try it first. By going to the Music Room, I was able not only to try several instruments, but I was able to walk away with the one I liked - no waiting for one to be made. Added to that, when something went wrong - some buttons started sticking which turned out to be a problem with the springs - I was able to take it back and the main delay was waiting for new springs to come from the States. Even so I had the instrument back in little over a week. For me this made it worth paying the higher price the Music Room charge relative to the cost of importing directly. Geoff

LOL Geoff

Interesting. I play Anglo, but where I live, I rarely come across another Anglo player. The overwhelming majority play English. A geographical breakdown would be interesting. Geoff

I play Anglo, not strictly English style, but I do play chords with my left hand. I use my little finger regularly on the C and G rows with no problems. However, I have fairly small hands so I can barely reach the 4th and 5th buttons on the "chromatic row" with my little finger on either hand, so have to rely on my ring finger to reach those buttons when I need them. To date, this has not been often, but is becoming more common as I start to reach out of my initial comfort zone. Geoff