Cyril Tawney's "grey Funnel Line"

[Wolf Molkentin]

Re-recorded the song using a proper mic - thanks again to Matthew and Don who set me on the track!

 

Still an uncut live recording (that's what I like to go for):

 

Grey Funnel Line

 

Any comment is appreciated!

 

Regards to all - Wolf

Edited February 12, 2014 by blue eyed sailor

[Don Taylor]

Wolf:

 

Great stuff, I wish that I could do what you are doing, but that does not stop me being a critic!

 

I think that you sound too bouncy and cheerful! Maybe you have been listening to too much Morris music

 

This is a meant to be about a sailor (Cyril Tawney himself) mourning that he has wasted his youth by signing on in the Navy for 16 years when he was only 16 years old. He is bored out of his skull watching the sea churn behind his ship instead of living a life on shore courting and marrying like his classmates.

 

(I was very tempted to do this myself when I was a callow youth, but thank god I failed the eyesight test. My buddy did sign up and the next time I saw him, a few years later, he was a drunk and had become a very rough guy).

 

Anyway, I think that you should slow it down some and maybe try dropping the melody line on the concertina.

 

Don.

[Wolf Molkentin]

Hello Don,

thank you for your almost instant reaction - very much appreciated!

As to the details, you're raising questions that are quite relevant to me as well.

I think that you sound too bouncy and cheerful! Maybe you have been listening to too much Morris music

What I can say is that I can't blame the Morris since I hardly have points of contact with this world at all - have just been introduced by watching the sites (including John's amazing "Kettlebridge Clogs") at Lewes in October 2013. Besides, this month's TOTM actually is a Morris tune, but I chose to record the Irish counterpart (which has another sort of bounce with it) instead...

This is a meant to be about a sailor (Cyril Tawney himself) mourning that he has wasted his youth by signing on in the Navy for 16 years when he was only 16 years old. He is bored out of his skull watching the sea churn behind his ship instead of living a life on shore courting and marrying like his classmates.

I'm a bit unsure here. I have learnt (from a very reliable person) that a lament doesn't have to be slowly - at least in the singing of English folk song, which this might be accounted in a wider sense. I chose to add weight through the singing whilst taking the words seriously. The song is quite repetive which I take as expression of dullness, lonelyness a.s.f.

I don't think I will slow the whole song down more than slightly. Maybe it would be adequate just to have some hesitation between the lines (as Cyril has them himself). I will try out some variations with your critique in mind.

Anyway, I think that you should slow it down some and maybe try dropping the melody line on the concertina.

As to the latter point I'm likewise unsure. I seem to recall that it is widely regarded as unfitting to double the melody line with one's playing. OTOH there are fiddlers, guitarists and even concertinists (Dick Miles comes to my mind) who are doing this.

To my ears it works in many cases contrary to initial belief. My present work piece for that is "Barbara Allen", where I take the version that Stuart has provided (in a very impressive way as to me) in order to adapt it to my style, i.e. including the melody. I'm curious about the reactions to that recording which I will provide within the next days.

Best wishes - Wolf

 

edited to erase typo

Edited February 13, 2014 by blue eyed sailor

[Steve Wilson]

G'day Wolf,

 

Yay, the new mic is much better and I second Don, great stuff. What you're doing with the EC is fantastic, I wish I had the time right now to analyse how you do it. The accompaniment is still slightly too loud I think. Try having it closer to your voice and the concertina under the table or something like that.

 

This brings me to the point of criticism. That Don fella is picky isn't he. Just joking Joyce(Don). I have often wondered about the place for constructive criticism in these forums and Don you've broken the ice for me. I have been concerned about causing offence but I guess it depends upon how well one knows the one being criticised. I feel I'm starting to know some of you blokes a little now. I sometimes wish that people would be a bit critical of what I've been doing but I guess I need to invite it as you did Wolf.

 

So Wolf, I agree with Don that the melody line is not needed when you're singing. But it's your interpretation, do what's best for you. Looking forward to more. This song accompaniment baby is starting to grow in these forums.

 

Cheers Steve

[JimLucas]

Any comment is appreciated!

I think that you sound too bouncy and cheerful!

Wolf, my reactions are different from Don's. At first I did find your rendition unsettling, but I quickly realized that was only because it's so different from how I've heard anyone else sing it in the past. It would never have occurred to me to make it so strongly rhythmical. I'm used to much more freedom in the rhythm, while yours seems almost like a dance. I wouldn't use the word "cheerful" to describe it, though. And I don't think it's "wrong", either.. just different.

 

This is a meant to be about a sailor (Cyril Tawney himself) mourning that he has wasted his youth by signing on in the Navy for 16 years when he was only 16 years old. He is bored out of his skull watching the sea churn behind his ship instead of living a life on shore courting and marrying like his classmates.

Interesting. That's the first I've heard that history, and it sounds much more serious -- almost desperate -- than my interpretation all these years, which is more wistful. (And I think I'll stay with my own interpretation, at least in the way I sing it.)

 

Anyway, I think that you should slow it down some and maybe try dropping the melody line on the concertina.

Slow it down? Well, I sing it a bit more slowly, but not a lot.

 

Drop the melody line? Keeping the rest of your accompaniment the same without the melody line might work, though I'm not sure. Might want to make some other changes if you do drop the melody. But I don't think having the melody line there is detrimental; I think it sounds just fine the way it is.

 

I have learnt (from a very reliable person) that a lament doesn't have to be slowly - at least in the singing of English folk song, which this might be accounted in a wider sense.

I bristle at terms like "has to be". I experiment to find what "feels" good to me. That, of course, is based both on my prior experience and on my own reactions to that experience. I feel that if I have to follow someone else's "rules" in order to create an arrangement, I shouldn't be doing it. Doing that would make it artificial, and I'm sure it would also sound artificial. That doesn't mean that I won't consider others' opinions, but I think about them and use them as fuel for my experimentation, not as rules I have to follow.

 

Having said that, here's my point of view on "laments": Laments come in many flavors. A wistful "gee. I wish...," is quite different from a tragedy that one is trying to recover from, which is quite different still from "I'm depressed and expect never to recover". How I arrange and perform a song depends on the particular emotion or attitude I want to express.

 

I will try out some variations with your critique in mind.

Yep. That's what I mean.

 

I seem to recall that it is widely regarded as unfitting to double the melody line with one's playing. OTOH there are fiddlers, guitarists and even concertinists (Dick Miles comes to my mind) who are doing this.

The "widely regarded" concept again raises my hackles. Quite often, the opposites of things that are "widely regarded" are regarded equally widely. Or the "widely" is actually "wide" only in comparison to a small community doing the regarding. Or even -- particularly on the internet -- the "widely regarded" is really only widely copied, without having been "regarded" at all.

 

As for my own accompaniments (of which "none" is also common), it depends on the song and the feeling I want to convey. Sometimes I play the melody line only along with my voice, sometimes melody with harmony, sometimes melody with chording, sometimes harmony or chording without the melody. Sometimes I use more than one of the above styles for different verses in a single song or even within a single verse. And I don't necessarily do a song the same way every time.

 

So I suggest that in the end you should do what feels/sounds good to you.

 

[John Wild]

What I can say is that I can't blame the Morris since I hardly have points of contact with this world at all - have just been introduced by watching the sites (including John's amazing "Kettlebridge Clogs") at Lewes in October 2013. Besides, this month's TOTM actually is a Morris tune, but I chose to record the Irish counterpart (which has another sort of bounce with it) instead...

edited to erase typo

 

Thank you for the compliment. That mainly belongs to the dancers. I will pass on your kind remarks.

 

best wishes

 

John

[Wolf Molkentin]

Steve and Jim, thank you as well for your interest and detailed commenting. I'm very glad about the favourable appreciation!

 

However I really mean to ask for critique as well and consider all of it. Steve, I agree that the accompaniment should recede to some further extent in the recording. As to the duplicated melody line, I wouldn't be able to simply drop it because the playing developed as sort of a unity (just an English thing as to my understanding and experience). Would thus have to do something completely different would I not stick to the present concept which pleases me still.

 

OTOH I'm truly thankful for conceding individual style and preferences as you both do. As to the "has to", Jim: We quite seem to be at one here; I refered to a "doesn't have to be" which to my belief is rather an open-minded thing... I feel encouraged to proceed heading in that direction, feeling free for any tasteful choice of mine. However, I respect tradition and deem it appropriate to at least to know where transcending it.

 

This song accompaniment baby is starting to grow in these forums.

 

Yes it does, and you're one of those who got it off the ground Steve...

 

Apart from this, if I could help with any details regarding my still emerging approach on playing the EC feel free to ask (be it in public or privately). I'm very glad having been able to develop these skills with that long-awaited and finally found great little new instrument of mine.

 

Best wishes - Wolf

 

 

(edited to remove typo)

Edited February 14, 2014 by blue eyed sailor

[Pete Dunk]

So what's next Sammy's Bar? Cyril was a regular at the Grove Inn in Leeds for a while, one of my haunts for many years, he wrote some great songs!

[JimLucas]

So what's next Sammy's Bar? Cyril was a regular at the Grove Inn in Leeds for a while, one of my haunts for many years, he wrote some great songs!

 

Here's Cyril himself doing Sammy's Bar.

 

But he did so many great songs that it's hard to decide what to learn next:

• The Oggie Man
• Chicken on a Raft
• Diesel and Shale - the accordion bits here could easily be done on most sorts of concertina
• Sally Free and Easy
• and so many more

[Wolf Molkentin]

Thank you both for the suggestions - might in fact have a go with Sammy's Bar first!

 

Pete, the Golden-Ring version is truly beautiful in its own right! And did you hear Cyril overthere? Lucky you if so!

 

Best regards - Wolf

[JimLucas]

Thank you both for the suggestions - might in fact have a go with Sammy's Bar first!

 

Pete, the Golden-Ring version is truly beautiful in its own right! And did you hear Cyril overthere? Lucky you if so!

 

I don't know whether I'll ever try working up an accompaniment to Sammy's Bar. First time I heard it was a solo concert sponsored by the New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club. The singer did it a capella. On the first verse, nobody sang on the chorus lines, a clear indication that it was also their first time hearing it. On the second verse there were at least 100 voices singing along, with at least 6-part harmony, like a cathedral choir. That spoiled me, and I've never been truly satisfied with any accompanied version I've heard, not even the Golden Ring or Cyril himself.

 

Having said that, I have to admit that I did once accompany myself on the concertina. The folk club in Roskilde (Denmark) was moving out of their long-time quarters and having a final fling, a concert followed by sessions and partying in various rooms and an open stage in one. I'd never been there before, but I got up to sing, when suddenly a highland piper in a nearby room started tuning up. How in the world was I going to compete with that?! Then I remembered that Sammy's Bar was one song that I was always careful to sing in Bb, because of the range. I started to play the melody on the concertina, and it sounded OK against the pipes, so I started singing, improvising some harmony on the concertina. To my great surprise and delight, the audience spontaneously joined in on the chorus lines... something I'd never before encountered in Denmark, and the pipes fit right in. It worked out beautifully, but I've never since tried accompanying the song; I always do it a capella, depending on the audience for "accompaniment".

[Wolf Molkentin]

Jim, thank you for providing your personal background - it's not hard to imagine your shying away from an instrumental accompaniment by that.

 

Can't get the song out of my head (despite learning "Barabara Allen" presently). I feel compelled to express my thankfulness to the members of this community, and those who keep introducing me to Cyril Tawney in particular. Didn't even know his name priorly. Once I lead sort of a "Shanty Choir" (until we parted in deep alienation) I even had to wrestle for any "Leave her Johnny" , "Leaving of Liverpool" and the likes. But as to seasong, I still discover the realms beyond that, with Cyril being one of the main characters as it turns out!

Edited February 15, 2014 by blue eyed sailor

[JimLucas]

...as to seasong, I still discover the realms beyond that, with Cyril being one of the main characters as it turns out!

I could also recommend the songs of Tom Lewis. Maybe you already know about him?

 

And of course there are many other songs by various individuals, including T.R.Aditional.

[Wolf Molkentin]

Thank you again Jim - after having gone through "Barbara Allen" to my at least partial satisfaction I'm gladly into "Sammy's Bar" (with my wife singing the harmony in lines two and four; what a great song it is as well!) but have realized that Tom Lewis will be the next for me to discover (hadn't heard of him either as yet).

[Pete Dunk]

did you hear Cyril overthere? Lucky you if so!

 

Cyril was a regular for a couple of years at a Leeds city center pub that was/is a haunt for musos in general and folkies in particular. Not only did I see a number of his gigs there, I spent many hours propping up the bar (drinking orange juice honest guv!) and chatting about life in general and his extraordinary songwriting talent when he had no gigs elsewhere. The same goes for a number of folk luminaries, The Grove is a well known and popular drop in for anyone passing through the city in fact many famous folkies go out of their way to visit if they are in the area. Leeds is in Yorkshire, a region well known for being laid back and unflapable, so one Saturday evening (the first Saturday I'd missed in two years!) a local hero, Steve Philips - blues guitarist and top flight guitar maker walks in with his long time friend and ace guitarist Brendan Croker. They'd brought along an old mate who used to work for the Yorkshire Post newspaper, whose offices were less than half a mile down the road from the pub. That Saturday night in a scruffy old pub in Leeds that I couldn't make it to for the evening, the Notting Hillbilly's were born. The ex journalist from the Yorkshire Post was none other than Mark Knopfler, he played in my local pub for free and I WASN'T THERE!

 

Sorry you were asking about someone called Cyril?

[Wolf Molkentin]

Pete, that's amazing even if you didn't make it that evening. And as to the bloke called Cyril I can easily Imagine chatting with him about whatever being quite rewarding. His songs are as focussed as they're true, creativly recycling the tradition... I'm very glad to be on his track right now... Thank you for sharing your tales!

[MatthewVanitas]

 

This is a meant to be about a sailor (Cyril Tawney himself) mourning that he has wasted his youth by signing on in the Navy for 16 years when he was only 16 years old. He is bored out of his skull watching the sea churn behind his ship instead of living a life on shore courting and marrying like his classmates.

I'm a bit unsure here. I have learnt (from a very reliable person) that a lament doesn't have to be slowly - at least in the singing of English folk song, which this might be accounted in a wider sense. I chose to add weight through the singing whilst taking the words seriously. The song is quite repetive which I take as expression of dullness, lonelyness a.s.f.

 

edited to erase typo

 

I was pondering this, and came up with several good examples of rapid laments, although several I've already now forgotten:

 

• I'll Go and List for a Sailor; this I know from the Morris On album (
  , and it's a dark lament played at a rapid pace: "Oh, once I was happy as a bird in a tree,/My Sarah was all in the world to me,/ Now I'm cut out by a son of the sea, She's left me here to bewail her."
• Second Front Song; Ewan Maccoll, (
  ). Great long-narrative ballad, very dark and minor but with really driving pace on clawhammer banjo. I have no idea how to replicate that drive on concertina, though Anglo probably makes it more intuitive than on my Duet. Great patter, almost the Anglo/Scottish equivalent of "talking blues": "I let myself in quietly and tiptoed up the stairs/ The thought of being home again had banished all my cares./ In the bedroom then I murmured, " Nell, your soldier boy has come!/ When a voice replied, in sharp surprise, "Say Nell, Who is this bum?"

 

Those are the first that jump to mind. Though for a moment when considering the question I crossed a wire, and ended up thinking of sad songs in Major modes, like "The Week Before Easter". It's a fun theme, songs that have a setting that "clashes" with the content.

Edited February 18, 2014 by MatthewVanitas