Joachim Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I like to offer my beautiful Edgley concertina for sale because I have now bought a Suttner and dont't want the Edgley only to lie in the corner without getting played. I received the Edgley September 2007 and played it continuously with much joy. It is a beautiful instrument with a very nice sound and a really fast response. It is in practical new condition without any damage. Other specifications: . 30 key, Jeffries layout . C/G tuning . professional model (see Frank Edgley's homepage) . Bolivian rosewood, steel ends . what I like very much are the buttons with bigger diameter than the vintage instruments . box included of course I don't want to make profit with it but like to get back the price that I paid. On request I will send pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryFrank Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) I like to offer my beautiful Edgley concertina for sale because I have now bought a Suttner and dont't want the Edgley only to lie in the corner without getting played.I received the Edgley September 2007 and played it continuously with much joy. It is a beautiful instrument with a very nice sound and a really fast response. It is in practical new condition without any damage. Other specifications: . 30 key, Jeffries layout . C/G tuning . professional model (see Frank Edgley's homepage) . Bolivian rosewood, steel ends . what I like very much are the buttons with bigger diameter than the vintage instruments . box included of course I don't want to make profit with it but like to get back the price that I paid. On request I will send pictures. Joachim, In other words, you want the NEW price for a USED instrument. And you DON'T think that's profiteering??? (But you get the pleasure of ownership and playing it, for a year, for FREE.) And don't want others to think you're profiteering either.. (BTW, I'm a collecter, restorer and player of vintage, used and new concertinas. I run an international business and wouldn't DARE do this. I'd deduct 10% off the new price, IF it's in perfect condition. More (5% to 10% more) if it has any blemishes, from use.) Cordially, KerryF Edited October 19, 2008 by KerryFrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Crossland Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Would selling a Wheatstone from the 1920's which cost a few pounds for several thousand pounds be profiteering? The instrument is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, and much joy to the buyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Lawton Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 An instrument is worth what people are prepared to pay... the advantage here is no waiting list. Go easy Kerry... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) I'd deduct 10% off the new price, IF it's in perfect condition. More (5% to 10% more) if it has any blemishes, from use. What you're saying makes total sense. Please let me know if you're selling a Dipper, Suttner or some old Jeffries. You'd sell a 38 buttons Suttner for about 4000 euros, still a bit expensive, but fair I think. PS: I havent seen you complain for that Dipper that went for US$9500, I'm not sure why you're complaning now... Edited October 19, 2008 by Azalin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) regardless of what may or not be intended on the seller end.....on the buyer end, with edgley wait lists at a mere few months, why would you even consider paying anyone the brand-new price for a year-old instrument that has been played continually during that period, when for that dough you could have your own brand-new one made to order? obviously, the only reason to buy this one rather than ordering your own new would be a nice savings over brand-new. kinda like a car---if you're not going to get your depreciation discount, you'd just buy new......the "wait list" argument is asinine when you're talking about a few months... Edited October 20, 2008 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Agreed. Joachim is quite clear about what he's offering and potential buyers can make their own decisions. If Frank Edgley has raised his prices in the last year (just speculating here, as I don't know whether he has or not) this could still be cheaper than a new instrument. An instrument is worth what people are prepared to pay... the advantage here is no waiting list. Go easy Kerry... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Agreed. Joachim is quite clear about what he's offering and potential buyers can make their own decisions. If Frank Edgley has raised his prices in the last year (just speculating here, as I don't know whether he has or not) this could still be cheaper than a new instrument. An instrument is worth what people are prepared to pay... the advantage here is no waiting list. Go easy Kerry... Dave Ioahim simply didn't realize that antique concertinas depreciated already before they started to appreciate. His Edgley is yet to depreciate first. Not much though, it's only a year old, played in, flexible bellows. So for some it may be more desirable than new. But with only few months waiting period why buy old for the price of new, right? In only a year of playing your new will become perfectly one year old, and it will play in the way YOU play it in, not others. Unless, as been mentioned, the prices have gone up in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Would selling a Wheatstone from the 1920's which cost a few pounds for several thousand pounds be profiteering? The instrument is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, and much joy to the buyer! Ah, but Bill, what could you buy for those "few pounds" back in the 1920s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombilly Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 This argument went backwards and forwards on the C&F flute forum a while back - some people think you can expect to buy instruments, try them for a while and sell them on at the same price, if not a profit. OK in a rising market with short supply. Others argued that there should be always be depreciation on new instruments and that this reflected the opportunity to own and play the instrument. If you wanted to avoid this expense, then seek out friends to try theirs or go to festivals etc. Either way, it costs money. Consensus was that different rules apply to the vintage market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I don't see what the fuss is about. If he's asking too much then no-one will buy it. That's how the market works unless you get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 I am really concerned about that discussion. I am not a dealer who wants to make profit with concertinas, it is the opposite that I lost a lot of money by trying to get a nice concertina. Please don't blame me if now I like to get back the money I spent for the Edgley. Fact for me is that a Edgley concertina (at least in the first year of playing) has no wear at all but rather improves with continuous playing. I only ask if someone likes to have a 30 key rapidly without any waiting time. I don't think this is immoral. If this is not the market price (I am no professional dealer to know that) then I redraw my offer, because I do not want to be blamed to be a profiteer. Thank you for all your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Weinstein Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 The general rule of thumb is that concertina reeded instruments appreciate in value, and accordian reeded instruments depreciate. This is largely because the concertina reeded instruments are either vintage (and have already taken all the decpreciation they are going to take), or are modern with long waiting lists. The waiting list (if any) for accordion reeded instruments is short, and so there isn't a real time-cost to getting a new one. International valuations are further complicated by changes in exchange rates depending on when the instruments were purchased. All that being said, it may be worth it for someone in Germany to purchase the instrument from you at current list price just to avoid the hassle that is customs and international shipping. Not to mention the joy of making the decision and having the instrument immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I am really concerned about that discussion. I am not a dealer who wants to make profit with concertinas, it is the opposite that I lost a lot of money by trying to get a nice concertina. Please don't blame me if now I like to get back the money I spent for the Edgley. Fact for me is that a Edgley concertina (at least in the first year of playing) has no wear at all but rather improves with continuous playing. I only ask if someone likes to have a 30 key rapidly without any waiting time. I don't think this is immoral. If this is not the market price (I am no professional dealer to know that) then I redraw my offer, because I do not want to be blamed to be a profiteer. Thank you for all your comments. I don't think anybody blames you to be immoral. Profiteering is not considered a sin in the Western world. And to me your offer is not profiteering either. It's just that the offer was a little strange, that's all. I agree, a year old instrument may play better than new, but the risk is simply that a buyer doesn't know where that instrument has been and how used. So that is taken into consideration. If I were in the market, I would have contacted you and arrange a deal. I think an Edgley is the best hybrid out there. After all, a buyer can ask any question and receive satisfying answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieppe Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I am really concerned about that discussion. I am not a dealer who wants to make profit with concertinas, it is the opposite that I lost a lot of money by trying to get a nice concertina. Please don't blame me if now I like to get back the money I spent for the Edgley. Fact for me is that a Edgley concertina (at least in the first year of playing) has no wear at all but rather improves with continuous playing. I only ask if someone likes to have a 30 key rapidly without any waiting time. I don't think this is immoral. If this is not the market price (I am no professional dealer to know that) then I redraw my offer, because I do not want to be blamed to be a profiteer. Thank you for all your comments. I don't think anybody blames you to be immoral. Profiteering is not considered a sin in the Western world. And to me your offer is not profiteering either. It's just that the offer was a little strange, that's all. I agree, a year old instrument may play better than new, but the risk is simply that a buyer doesn't know where that instrument has been and how used. So that is taken into consideration. If I were in the market, I would have contacted you and arrange a deal. I think an Edgley is the best hybrid out there. After all, a buyer can ask any question and receive satisfying answers. For that matter a buyer could offer less than what the seller wants, and the seller doesn't have to take it.. but what if that's the only offer? I mean, even amongst concertina friends (who aren't trying to stiff each other) I'm sure there's room for consideration and haggling. It's not like it's an eBay auction with a high initial bid, and no wiggle room. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Fahy Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Joachim, In other words, you want the NEW price for a USED instrument. And you DON'T think that's profiteering??? (But you get the pleasure of ownership and playing it, for a year, for FREE.) And don't want others to think you're profiteering either.. (BTW, I'm a collecter, restorer and player of vintage, used and new concertinas. I run an international business and wouldn't DARE do this. I'd deduct 10% off the new price, IF it's in perfect condition. More (5% to 10% more) if it has any blemishes, from use.) Cordially, KerryF Frank, You came across quite strong and offensive in your reply. As a person with your vast experience you have the chance to assist Joachim to arrive a the right price but you ought to do it in a more convivial manner. Pat. Edited October 20, 2008 by Pat Fahy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Yeah this debate is total nonsense. No one said anything when some other seller sold a Suttner for 5500 euros *right after* he received it from Suttner. Now, that would be a good definition of 'profiteering". Someone trying to sell an Edgley the same price he's paid for it, and maybe even saving import duty taxes and shipping in the process? This is darn weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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