wally Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have been reading the thread about session snobbery with interest. I have been attending a weekly session at the local pub since beginning to learn English Concertina. What are your top tips for a beginner trying to break into session playing. The session in question is very welcoming and I was invited to play at an early stage in my development. I played Jenny Jones, badly, and was rewarded with warm applause for my solo effort. One big problem is that I cannot hear what I am playing over the sound of the other instruments so how is it done and what your recommendations? Wally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofiddler Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Playing along with others is a skill that will come in time. Being able to play your own version of a tune, stay with everyone else and also relax enough to enjoy it takes more time than people imagine. You'll be able to do it without hearing yourself after a while, although I hate to think of a session where a concertina can't be heard by its player! The mind boggles. You don't play with the Dublin Pipers Club do you? (sorry Peter ) I'm a newbie with the concertina so can't help with volume issues. But with fiddles you just need to buy a louder one if you have that problem. As a general tip, it's better to be the quiet instrument in a session than the loudest one. Being the person who wants to be heard all the time can make you unpopular quite quickly. Although of course the loud players don't realise this, they think everyone loves them. <edit> For clarity, there are some instruments that are just loud and it's not the fault of the player</edit> Edited March 12, 2009 by Mayofiddler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombilly Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Playing music with others is definitely something that takes a little time. You need to be confident of your own playing of the tune and be comfortable with the tempo. You've got to kinda keep an ear out for the overall sound of the group - if your instrument is merging well with the other instruments, you're doing well. If it's not, then somethings 'wrong' - could be you are playing a different version of the tune, your timing is off or you're simply hitting the 'wrong' notes. It's an ongoing process as your repetoire and skill develops - a good session player seems to know when to join in and when to sit it out and listen. You could try to play along with recordings, slowed down if necesssary. These might be CD recordings but better still is to record the local session tunes you want to learn, ask first for courtesy!!, then play along with at home to get comfortable with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon melville Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I found that sitting at home with CDs and playing along as if at a session helped - you get into the way of playing the important notes like the first in each bar, plus recognising the runs and intervals as they crop up "live" - then when faced with tunes in a session, I could apply the same approach. It is better to play few, correct, notes than to over-reach and get it all wrong. In a supportive session like the one you described, you will earn a lot of kudos and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Levine Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I hate to think of a session where a concertina can't be heard by its player! A session with other concertinas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Reeves Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 My take is, your instrument is probably loud enough to be a valuable part of the session. You as the player are at a disadvantage for hearing an instrument cradled on your knee, under a table, but it will resonate regardless. If you are solid on playing the tunes, not noodling or faking it you will be accepted by most musicians. The only other point I might make, is to be aware of slight differences in versions of tune as played vs as written, or taught by a single teacher. Music, specially traditional music may have a few unique twists based on locality. A session is as much a social experience as it is a musical endeavor. A performance is very different from a session, but professionalism with respect to the music and others playing in a session will always be noticed even as a novice player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I think I would point out that listening for your instrument is a skill that most concertina players need to develop. Like it or not, most of the sound in most concertinas is pointed away from us. Not a big deal when you are playing with a fiddle and a flute, but when you are playing with those plus a banjo, a box, two whistles and two more flutes... well I know it can be hard to hear what you are playing. After a while, I listen for missed notes.. I might not hear what I am playing, but I will hear if I play something that doesn't go with what everyone else is playing (Though this can be tough if you have another guy in the session with a concertina that sounds the same as yours...). One technique I find that helps is making sure you turn your ear toward your instrument. If I hold my head up looking forward, I rarely hear what I play in a full session... but if I turn my head to the side and tip an ear towards the instrument, it gets a lot easier to hear. -- Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Laban Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) The mind boggles. You don't play with the Dublin Pipers Club do you? (sorry Peter tongue.gif ) All's relative. Some twenty years ago I played a concert pitch set of pipes that was not my own in a session where Tony Crehan was sitting directly to the right of me. The sound of his concertina had my ears ringing for days. Kitty was always louder than I was too. Edited March 12, 2009 by Peter Laban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 I hate to think of a session where a concertina can't be heard by its player!<edit> For clarity, there are some instruments that are just loud and it's not the fault of the player</edit> Of course the reason why I can't hear my concertina during the session is because I'm restricting the volume so as to remain unobtrusive. I can play bum notes without being noticed! I am keen to play in the session as they are friendly and inclusive but perhaps I need more experience. Are many players able to join in with tunes they do not know or is it necessary to learn everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofiddler Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 The mind boggles. You don't play with the Dublin Pipers Club do you? (sorry Peter tongue.gif ) All's relative. Some twenty years ago I played a concert pitch set of pipes that was not my own in a session where Tony Crehan was sitting directly to the right of me. The sound of his concertina had my ears ringing for days. Kitty was always louder than I was too. I was just joking I hope you realised :-) I used to play in the front snug of Hughes' in Dublin with the lads from the pipers club every Friday night for many years. There were 11 sets of pipes in there one memorable night, in a bar about 20ft. by 8 ft. About 1/3 were in tune with themselves and about 1/10 with each other. So I tended to pull their legs a bit. A hard habit to give up but it's really just friendly slagging. Anyway, this is a very interesting thread because I've never played the concertina in a session only having had one for a few weeks. So it's interesting to hear the problems that might plague me in the future. I've been blindly assuming that everything will be the same as playing the fiddle, but with a bit of thought it's obvious it won't. So thanks to all who are explaining the hearing difficulties. Although I still find it a hard concept to grasp, not being able to hear a concertina. Going back to Hughes' and the bar full of pipers, we'd be playing away and suddenly hear the sound of a concertina that was being played at the far end of the other bar, and the pipers would look at each other and say "Micheál's in again." :-) It was done in fun of course but you see why I was puzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindizzy Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I hate to think of a session where a concertina can't be heard by its player!<edit> For clarity, there are some instruments that are just loud and it's not the fault of the player</edit> Of course the reason why I can't hear my concertina during the session is because I'm restricting the volume so as to remain unobtrusive. I can play bum notes without being noticed! I am keen to play in the session as they are friendly and inclusive but perhaps I need more experience. Are many players able to join in with tunes they do not know or is it necessary to learn everything? Not all concertinas are equally loud ....and if you're in a session with any other concertinas, it can be surprisingly difficult to hear your own concertina rather than the one next to you (especiialy with ECs)! OTOH if you can't hear it it's probably OK. For tunes when I'm not too confident or the seesion is loud I curl up over the concertina and lift it off my knee to my ears so I can actually hear what I'm playing. Sometimes I know I'm playing correctly by the feel rather than the sound - If I'm doing it right there's a certain resonance around the fingers :-) I try and resist playing louder so that I can hear better (wish some others did too ) - a lot of the sound is going out sideways and even if I can't hear it, the guy next to me probably can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombilly Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Are many players able to join in with tunes they do not know or is it necessary to learn everything? That's classic Catch22 - you need to learn loads tunes for several years and then when you know these well, you can then find it easier to pick up new tunes on the fly. That's a sweeping generalisation, of course! Some tunes are catchy, easy and sit well on certain instruments - others are much harder to nail down. So, as you progress - some tunes are handy to pick up quickly but others require a lot of attention. The balance just changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofiddler Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Are many players able to join in with tunes they do not know or is it necessary to learn everything? That's classic Catch22 - you need to learn loads tunes for several years and then when you know these well, you can then find it easier to pick up new tunes on the fly. That's a sweeping generalisation, of course! Some tunes are catchy, easy and sit well on certain instruments - others are much harder to nail down. So, as you progress - some tunes are handy to pick up quickly but others require a lot of attention. The balance just changes. Yup, also if you play one genre to the exclusion of all else it's much easier. Certainly in Irish trad there are lots of patterns that repeat in most of the tunes, so to an extent you can plug and play parts of new tunes in a session and get large parts of it into your head, so you can work out the missing bits when you get home (or next day after the hangover). Also, if you go to a session regularly you'll hear the local repertoire frequently, so again it becomes easier through repetition. All of this assumes you learn by ear of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidgeonpost Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have been reading the thread about session snobbery with interest. I have been attending a weekly session at the local pub since beginning to learn English Concertina. What are your top tips for a beginner trying to break into session playing. The session in question is very welcoming and I was invited to play at an early stage in my development. I played Jenny Jones, badly, and was rewarded with warm applause for my solo effort. One big problem is that I cannot hear what I am playing over the sound of the other instruments so how is it done and what your recommendations? Wally Cor! 5 a.m.! You get up early! I haven't read the whole thread Wally, so apologies if I'm repeating some of what's already been said. I too play English concertina in Gloucestershire, and despite having played for quite some years, I still feel like a beginner at sessions where I'm not a regular. Things that I've have either helped or not helped me are:- Getting to know what sort of stuff gets featured regularly at the sessions you go to. Some sessions favour 100m.p.h. Irish stuff, others love English tunes. Some sessions are happy to mix it up, others get a bit sniffy if you don't play 'their' sort of stuff. Take a recording device of some sort, record a few tunes, and then when you play them at home you'll learn the version they play at your session, as it may be different to the session down the road. Get to know what tunes are paired together. It can be very disconcerting to launch into what you think will be the second tune only to find that all the others are playing something else! Been there, done that - still do it sometimes! See how many times through they tend to play each tune. Some sessions do 2A's, followed by 2B's x 3, others may only play them twice through. If you're anything like me it's very easy to lose count. Playing on your own at home is VERY different to playing in a session where you may be surrounded by experienced players often on very loud instruments. If you have a recording taken at a session, try to play it back over your hi-fi system and adjust the volume so it's like playing at the session itself - even to the extent that you are struggling to hear yourself (neighbours permitting). In noisy sessions I lift my box up to ear level occasionally just to check I'm making a noise that approximates to the tune. I find that sitting in a corner (preferably facing the room!) helps, as the sound of the instrument tends to bounce off the walls. Know when to call it a day. We were in a session at Sidmouth a couple of years ago which was eventually populated by 13 melodeons. Some of the players played sympathetically while some, who really should have known better, simply gave it as much welly as they could muster. There was simply no way we could enjoy it to the full as we couldn't hear well enough. Time to sit back with a beer or find a different session. Keep playing, good luck, and enjoy your sessions (where do you go by the way?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjcjones Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have a whole repertoire of tunes I can only play in sessions - I can play them perfectly well as long as there's someone else to take a cue from, but it I try to play them on my own I get lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have a whole repertoire of tunes I can only play in sessions - I can play them perfectly well as long as there's someone else to take a cue from, but it I try to play them on my own I get lost. Now that is strange to me. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bradshaw Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have a whole repertoire of tunes I can only play in sessions - I can play them perfectly well as long as there's someone else to take a cue from, but it I try to play them on my own I get lost. Glad I'm not the only one....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have a whole repertoire of tunes I can only play in sessions - I can play them perfectly well as long as there's someone else to take a cue from, but it I try to play them on my own I get lost. Glad I'm not the only one....... Me too! I sometimes get lost on the start, even with certain well-known tunes. I just can't remember how the first few bars go. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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