Performance

[m3838]

Listen---a bumblebee!

 

And this is how a Bumblebee is played by a virtuoso.

[Daniel Hersh]

And here is a version from the Fayre Four, EC players from an earlier era.

 

Listen---a bumblebee!

And this is how a Bumblebee is played by a virtuoso.

[njurkowski]

Listen---a bumblebee!

 

And this is how a Bumblebee is played by a virtuoso.

 

Misha, I must admit that I love watching your arguing style...I can't even say for sure whether I like it more when I'm engaging it directly or watching it directed at someone else...

 

That aside, your juxtaposition of the bayan player and Juliette is very telling. Not to try to denigrate Juliette...she very good...but boy, that bayan player just makes me shake my head. The combination of blindingly perfect, utterly crisp technique and musicality (as much as is possibly in what's really a straight-forward, relatively shallow technical show-piece) makes me want to either practice more or throw up my hands...not sure which. The Fayre Four are closer to that level, but still not quite there, IMHO.

[m3838]

And here is a version from the Fayre Four, EC players from an earlier era.

 

Listen---a bumblebee!

And this is how a Bumblebee is played by a virtuoso.

Very interesting it was to catch a glimpse of Matusevich' playing Chardash. Very Russian feel, by the way.

In stark contrast to Russian Fantasy, which was awful.

I'm a little dismayed though, do you really don't hear the difference between Fayre Four Sisters' "Bumblebee" and the Russian Bayanist's rendition?

There are two:

1. technical precision. One just plays it, the other really tries hard to hit all the notes.

2. dynamics applied. One expresses the feeling by accentuating the prazes, clearly separating the themes, the other just presses ahead.

But why should I mention it, don't you guys hear it? I suspect there is a little bit of ideology involved.

But thanks for the site, it's great to hear EC played well.

That Matusevich guy, he's something. I'll get the CD, if I can.

[Daniel Hersh]

Yeah, I hear the difference. But as a folkie and an Anglo player I'm trying to resist the temptation to get too involved in this thread, though I find it very interesting reading.

 

If you're interested, there's a nice article on Matusewitch and his descendants here.

 

And here is a version from the Fayre Four, EC players from an earlier era.

Listen---a bumblebee!

And this is how a Bumblebee is played by a virtuoso.

Very interesting it was to catch a glimpse of Matusevich' playing Chardash. Very Russian feel, by the way.

In stark contrast to Russian Fantasy, which was awful.

I'm a little dismayed though, do you really don't hear the difference between Fayre Four Sisters' "Bumblebee" and the Russian Bayanist's rendition?

There are two:

1. technical precision. One just plays it, the other really tries hard to hit all the notes.

2. dynamics applied. One expresses the feeling by accentuating the prazes, clearly separating the themes, the other just presses ahead.

But why should I mention it, don't you guys hear it? I suspect there is a little bit of ideology involved.

But thanks for the site, it's great to hear EC played well.

That Matusevich guy, he's something. I'll get the CD, if I can.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Daniel Hersh

[Woody]

For clarity reasons, let me try to paraphraze some of your arguments and see, if it makes counter-arguments more clear?......

 

....Certainly, hobbyist flying paper plane on warm afternoon, can make a very serious exporation of airdynamics, requiring amazing technique and knowledge of the sorts of paper and glue.

 

To me, that would have to be considered a "serious" pursuit, no matter if the musician played the pipes, concertina, or even the bodhrán.

To me, that would have to be considered a "serious" pursuit, no matter if the pilot "flies" the paper plane, the RC helicopter, water rocket, or sends manned spacecraft to the Moon.

Personally I think a hobbyist that starts with flying paper plane on warm afternoon and then progresses to sending a manned spacecraft to the Moon could be considered to be undertaking a serious pursuit.

[Alan Day]

I just think that with this discussion many of you have not listened to the top players performing and it only takes one brilliant player to show the capabilities of the instrument. John Kirkpatrick (just listen to him playing Gigue) , Andrew Blakeny Edwards playing Joplin ,John Watcham playing Morris,Noel Hill, Mary and Kate McNamara,Mandy Murray playing Irish ,Jody playing American are just a few examples of how these players have raised the bar with Anglo playing.

It is when you hear the standard that can be reached on an instrument that you aim for that height and no doubt in the future a player will take it higher.

The same goes for English you just have not heard the examples of playing at the extreme top level. Many recordings of the old players are rare,held by a few enthusiasts. Some modern players few of you have heard, playing tunes on the English that you would not think possible. I have totally changed my mind about the English Concertina it is not the instrument I thought it was.It is not boring,it is capable of just about anything in the right hands. In a few weeks I hope to prove the point.

Al

[PeterT]

Misha, I must admit that I love watching your arguing style...I can't even say for sure whether I like it more when I'm engaging it directly or watching it directed at someone else...

Not all C.net members share this opinion.

[Rod]

Having originally kick-started this topic with a sort of plea for a greater degree of virtuosity, and having now sampled some, but not all of your recommendations, ( Tamara Volskaia on Domra and Igor Zavadsky on Button Accordian to name but two ), I am experiencing that despair that comes from the realisation that for a multitude of all too obvious reasons few of us probably stand a hope in hell of ever being able to emulate such genius on our Concertinas.

 

Postscript........Do virtuosi have smaller repertoires than rank and file musicians ? Could quality versus quantity have a part to play ?

[Mark Evans]

Having originally kick-started this topic with a sort of plea for a greater degree of virtuosity, and having now sampled some, but not all of your recommendations, ( Tamara Volskaia on Domra and Igor Zavadsky on Button Accordian to name but two ), I am experiencing that despair that comes from the realisation that for a multitude of all too obvious reasons few of us probably stand a hope in hell of ever being able to emulate such genius on our Concertinas.

 

Postscript........Do virtuosi have smaller repertoires than rank and file musicians ? Could quality versus quantity have a part to play ?

 

In some cases it could, but what do you say about Gould and Rostropovich?

 

A virtuoso must have many gifts, the most important could just be a monumental work ethic.

[Mark Evans]

 

Work Ethic....

[chiton1]

Let me add something about the seriousness of instruments which I think is here discussed in a too symplistic way.

First all instruments are different and all have their limitations. I agree some have more possibilities than others, but even the most serious instruments will lack certain capabilities. For instance my favourite instrument (in classical music) the violin (and its counterpart the cello) will not be able to make complex chords (and only double note combinations when possible). The Piano (another very serious instrument) can not hold a note for certain time, no matter how hard you push that pedal your note will fade away.

And Misha; lets now consider the great Indian classical music. The instruments used amongst others are the Sitar (reasonably complex), but also the Tabla (simple). But also the bamboo flute which is as simple as your paper and glue plane, but in the hands of Hariprashad Chaurasia it becomes as expressive as whatever cello, violin, piano, bayan or any other ''complex and sophisticated'' instrument.

Give me a few few thousand gifted young concertina students, and train them for many hours a day, and that during many years, and you will see concertina virtuosi arise, playing at a standard not seen before and perhaps not thought possible on that little, cute, not too serious instrument of ours.

[Mark Evans]

Give me a few few thousand gifted young concertina students, and train them for many hours a day, and that during many years, and you will see concertina virtuosi arise, playing at a standard not seen before and perhaps not thought possible on that little, cute, not too serious instrument of ours.

 

Sorry to jump back in here again...I hear you and have no doubt this is true. I'm uneasy at the word "trained". The gifted from which the virtuosi arise only need exposure to the instrument and the musical culture that it inhabits. If the concertina is what clicks, they will then need an excellent teacher to help them along the way. From my limited exposure, those types will keep a teacher running and digging to stay ahead of them. In most cases, they outstrip the capabilities of the first excellent teacher and need to move on to another teacher/mentor/guide.

 

The Irish Trad system is admirable in that they produce many fine players and their tradition in no way sees the concertina or button box as a lesser instrument.

 

I've mentioned this on these pages before, but I repeat it in our present context: After presenting a concert of Stephen Foster songs with vocalists, piano and concertina, a pianist colleague of mine laughingly said to me afterward, "you make that thing (concertina) almost seem like a legitmate instrument." It was meant as a compliment. That is a lot for a lunker like myself to overcome.

 

One day, some young blade will come along. I hope to still be on the planet. We do have a revival on our hands at present and I look forward to hearing what some of these fine players will show us.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Mark Evans

[Stephen Chambers]

 

Work Ethic....

Or manic obsession?

[Mark Evans]

Or manic obsession?

 

No doubt something along those lines! But what glorious maddness!

 

 

 

The Quebcois fiddle virtuoso Jean Carigan with Le reve du diable

 

 

His own brand of crazy, God rest his soul.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Mark Evans

[m3838]

Misha, I must admit that I love watching your arguing style...

 

Thanks. Trying my best.

 

as much as is possibly in what's really a straight-forward, relatively shallow technical show-piece

 

Completely agree. Once in a while This Bumblebee is brought as a sort of utter proof of someone's ability, but it has become such a lame trick, proving nothing. Just listen to many an electric bass players do this piece in completely technically perfect, yet musically senseless way, to the cheering of their Punk-Rock fans.

[m3838]

Personally I think a hobbyist that starts with flying paper plane on warm afternoon and then progresses to sending a manned spacecraft to the Moon could be considered to be undertaking a serious pursuit.

No doubt.

I was talking about another kind of hobbyist, like myself.

(btw, paper planes was my hobby for years, and in itself there is nothing spectacular about them, except when they fly well, and all of a sudden you start seen the air currents, the harmony, in which they are formed and progress. It's less of an engineering, but more of a performance act)

[m3838]

I am experiencing that despair

 

The answer is: Go folk. For which choose your instrument wisely and stay away from those designed with versatility in mind.