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Daniel Hersh

Different-looking Old German One

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It's here on eBay. It doesn't quite look like others I've seen. An early (44-button/88-tone) Carlsfelder perhaps? And where's the air valve? I don't see the usual big metal German lever...is it that thing near the left end on the right-side handrest?

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It doesn't quite look like others I've seen. An early (44-button/88-tone) Carlsfelder perhaps? And where's the air valve? I don't see the usual big metal German lever...is it that thing near the left end on the right-side handrest?
That "thing" could be what's left of it. It could also merely be missing (i.e. lost). I have seen some instruments (though they were 1960s era American & Italian made) with the air valve going through the valve board rather than the frame, but still having a lever rather than a button. See this one:

post-1638-1177692657_thumb.jpg

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It is definitily german and very old. The rectanglular shape design is like the Uhlig boxes around 1830, but this instrument may be newer (has a some more buttons). I have got 2 of this kind at home, not really playable at the time. Both have wooden levers and bandonion like reed plates. This kind of box (as far as I have seen) always has a bandonion kind of air release lever. As Theodore points out, I think the lever is just missing.

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Look at the picture with the fretwork that says "ERNST LOUIS HAHN".

The handle and strap are raised up on a box that reaches nearly the full width of the instrument and for half the depth.

On the edge of that box underneath the letter H of HAHN I think I see a lever showing??

Also under the RN of ERNST is that a hole??

 

regards Jake

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When I looked again, indeed it looks like a button, but I don't believe it is. Underneith this position I expect that there are wooden levers leading to the reeds, so it seems to me that it is an impossible position to put an air release button there. Also, I would expect the air release lever on the other (right hand) side.

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On the edge of that box underneath the letter H of HAHN I think I see a lever showing??

Also under the RN of ERNST is that a hole??

Jake,

 

What you're looking at there are the two openings in the front of the soundbox, and the way the light is catching the upper one.

 

The rectanglular shape design is like the Uhlig boxes around 1830 ...

Marien,

 

He didn't invent it until 1834, but I'm not aware of any examples that early (though I'd dearly love to see one) ...

 

And my 1835 Eulenstein doesn't have a wind key at all:

 

Chambers-Michaelstein-019-W400H300.jpg

 

This kind of box (as far as I have seen) always has a bandonion kind of air release lever.

Usually, but not always. You find a variety of different styles, especially on the earlier ones:

 

conz_40_tonigjpg-1.jpg

 

conz_56_tonigjpg-1.jpg

 

band_56t_R.jpg

 

UH82.jpg

 

 

The bellows and the buttons of the eBay one would seem to suggest an early twentieth century date.

 

Edited to add Eulenstein photo.

Edited by Stephen Chambers

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Great pics, Stephen! I would have guessed an earlier date (1880's?) but it would have been based on intuition rather than careful examination. I'll happily defer to your expertise.

 

Daniel

 

On the edge of that box underneath the letter H of HAHN I think I see a lever showing??

Also under the RN of ERNST is that a hole??

Jake,

 

What you're looking at there are the two openings in the front of the soundbox, and the way the light is catching the upper one.

The rectanglular shape design is like the Uhlig boxes around 1830 ...
Marien,

 

He didn't invent it until 1834, but I'm not aware of any examples that early (though I'd dearly love to see one) ...

This kind of box (as far as I have seen) always has a bandonion kind of air release lever.
Usually, but not always. You find a variety of different styles:

 

The bellows and the buttons of the eBay one would seem to suggest an early twentieth century date.

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Wow, nice pictures indeed, especially the Eulenstein, very rare I suppose.

 

About the one at the bottom (with the missing metal capped button), Does anyone know where to get replacements for those, I have the same type of buttons (and maybe the same missing metal caps problem) on a similar old german box.

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He didn't invent it until 1834, ...

 

According to http://www.d-and-d.com/contributions/tina-history.html

"The design of the Wheatstone 'Duette' was probably based on the German concertina first patented by Uhlig in the late 1820s". I guess that this claim is wrong?

Well its almost right! And at the time this was written (1991), very little history research was available. Change patented to announced, and late 1820s to 1834, and the claim is correct. I think Neil's intention here was to comment on the 'duette' construction methods, so the main part of the claim was valid, even if the date was wrong.

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Wow, nice pictures indeed, especially the Eulenstein, very rare I suppose.

.. and note that inspite of the German name, the Eulenstein comes from Bath, *ENGLAND*. You can see more about Stephen's collection here.

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I see, Charles is an english name, and also, the quality looks to be the english standard. I guess you're *english*?

 

It's fun to see that in a short time from about 1820 to 1840 peoples in Bath, Vienna, Paris, Berlin and London developed different instruments in the same era. It gives the impression that they were very concious about the importance of sharing technical information and design issues. Somewhere I read that Charles Wheatstone quasi "imported" Louis Lachenal from Switzerland, to use the famous technique skills of swiss clock makers for the technical design of his concertina's (must have been someone from Switzerland who wrote that). The idea is interesting though. I guess Wheatstone travelled a lot more than one would expect in a time where there were no trains and plains.

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I see, Charles is an english name, and also, the quality looks to be the english standard. I guess you're *english*?
I think you've misunderstood: Karl Eulenstein used 'Charles' while in England, and as Stephen's article text explains, this instrument is an enigma, with an uncertain origin.
It's fun to see that in a short time from about 1820 to 1840 peoples in Bath, Vienna, Paris, Berlin and London developed different instruments in the same era. It gives the impression that they were very concious about the importance of sharing technical information and design issues. Somewhere I read that Charles Wheatstone quasi "imported" Louis Lachenal from Switzerland, to use the famous technique skills of swiss clock makers for the technical design of his concertina's (must have been someone from Switzerland who wrote that). The idea is interesting though. I guess Wheatstone travelled a lot more than one would expect in a time where there were no trains and plains.

The idea of science, craftsmanship, and music combining at this time has been extensively covered in books by Maria Dunkel, although much of Wheatstone's knowledge was gained through books rather than travel.

 

Where did you read about Wheatstone quasi "imported" Louis Lachenal ? Current research indicates they became involved a few years after Lachenal's arrival ( see here ).

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All right, I know that Louis Lachenal was born in 1821 approx. and he came to England with his parents in 1839.

 

I hope you understand that it was not me who made up that Louis Lachenal was imported. The source for that was the german language wikepedia site, which does not have a lot of concertina statements and some of them may be doubtful, for example, until yesterday they spelled "lachnel" in stead of "lachenal". Wikepedia suggests that Wheatstone used the technical skills of the Swiss clockmaker Louis Lachenal. I do not know who wrote this in Wikepedia.

 

It is easy to add and change information in Wikepedia, anyone can do so. Here is the link:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konzertina

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Correction, Guess he did not come with his parents, I thought I had read that somewhere...

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Of course the box by Carl Eulensteen is much more interesting, but what drew my attention was the Hahn box and the similarity with this one (see pictures). Do you have an idea of the age of this 32 button german concertina (it is one that I plan to restore). If I am correct the button caps are german silver. I think it is not really old, maybe late 19th century? but in fact I have n't got a clue. There is no name or text on the box, except the numbers above the keys. It has a nice warm sound, and it is still good enough to restore it.

post-1783-1179350895_thumb.jpg

post-1783-1179350933_thumb.jpg

post-1783-1179350956_thumb.jpg

post-1783-1179351053_thumb.jpg

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I do not know who wrote this in Wikepedia.

 

Neiter do I but I am thinking about either re-writing the whole thing or adding something new. More than once I was dissapointed by this article which isn´t properly written.

 

Greetings

Christian

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Hello Christian,

 

What you say seems ok to me, but I am not German (maybe you will drive through my home town if you take the car to visit Wim Wakker). So, who is going to translate the entire Concertina.net pages into german language?

~{ :0)}=

 

Still I kept thinking, I mean that Louis Lachenal was booked as being clock maker when he arrived in England, as shown in Stephens pages. Does history need more proof that he really was? The sheet indicates that he was a professional clock maker before 1839. OK he was just 18 but, after all, clock maker was his profession in the immigration sheet and child labour (starting as young as you could earn money for the family) was really not uncommon those days.

 

Also I am curious whether the one who made up this german wikepadia page, just has been reading Stephen Chamber´s history page on Louis Lachenal, or somebody who knows more and has other sources of information.

 

Schoenen Tag noch,

Marien

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