Insuring Concertinas

[Bruce McCaskey]

I recently had a talk with my home insurance provider and tried to get a clear statement from them regarding their position on the multiple concertinas and one piano accordion I own. It was clear that the agent was somewhat clueless (no notion as to what a concertina was) as the discussion progressed, but he said that "musical instruments" would be covered against loss and theft as a part of the general household effects, subject to the deductible and depreciated by their age.

 

When pressed for details regarding full replacement value coverage, he said I'd need to have each appraised, and then submit a copy of the appraisals along with photos to have them included on the policy in that manner. When I pressed for just exactly who they would accept as being qualified to appraise a concertina I was told it would have to be someone "certified."

 

I suggested maybe a letter/statement from the makers of the various instruments might serve as appraisals but the agent said those folks would not be "certified" and therefore their opinions would have no weight.

 

We circled the drain on that aspect - I wanted a clear description of what agency or board "certification" they were looking for and it was pretty obvious that the agent didn"t have a clue, but still insisted on using the term. Eventually he gave me the name and phone number of someone in Seattle that was "certified to appraise antiques and fine art" and said they'd accept a concertina appraisal from that person. It doesn't seem a good fit to me.

 

I've recently reviewed concertina.net forum messages based on a search for the word "insurance." It's clear that depending on the insurance company there can be several qualifiers to consider when seeking and deciding on concertina insurance coverage, a partial list includes:

 

-Professional or amateur status.

-Instrument stolen from inside the home vs. somewhere outside the residence.

-In a locked car but visible vs. in a "trunk" or "boot."

-In a hotel room unattended vs. at a pub or restaurant or during travel (air, train, etc.).

-Stolen within the owner's home country vs. during foreign travel/ on a foreign carrier.

 

The home owner's policy coverage route is looking pretty questionable to me at this point. I'm going to research this topic further, but in the meantime I thought I'd ask about others experiences in establishing full replacement value for their instruments. If a written/photo appraisal was required, what sort of appraiser qualification was required by the insuring agency?

 

Edited to address some odd characters that appeared in the text

Edited January 2, 2007 by Bruce McCaskey

[Mikefule]

I write as an insurance claims investigator and assessor with 25 years' experience, although under UK law, not USA law.

 

When making a claim, the general principle is that it is the responsibility of the claimant to prove the claim.

 

In practice, the insurer will usually put forward an offer, and it is for the claimant to accept or reject the offer. If the offer is rejected, the claimant needs to justify his claim for an increased amount, but the insurer must of course be able to justify the offer. In the event of an unresolved dispute, either a court or an industry arbitrator will consider all of the evidence, and the contract terms before making a decision.

 

In this sense, there is no fundamental difference between an insurance contract and any other contract. Insurers are not a law unto themselves, and they are in negotiation with you in just the same way as a car salesman or double glazing salesman.

 

The best way to avoid this problem is by reaching a prior agreement on the value of an item. The item can then be specified on the policy at a given sum insured - which is approximately where you are now.

 

The insurer is under no obligation to offer an agreed value policy; the customer is under no obligation to stay with that insurer. So there's a negotiation, just like any other contract.

 

The insurer can choose to accept any level of evidence of value - ranging from a formal valuation from a qualified expert, right down to an educated guess. Their decision is based on commercial considerations, not some external regulation or law. Of course, they are far more likely to accept a formal valuation from a qualified expert.

 

The expert has to justify his opinion - if necessary, in front of the arbitrator. The valuer is therefore providng a professional service for which he is entitled to charge.

 

The insurers are entitled to query or clarify the expert's opinion.

 

It is likely that your insurance salesman has little understanding of concertinas, and the underwriter is also unlikely to have any specialised knowledge. Commercial considerations dictate that when a risk is unusual, and hard to quantify, the premium is often loaded in the insurer's favour.

 

It is likely that as an enthusiast, you have emphasised the unique nature and value of your classic instruments, and the underwriter may well be alarmed by this and over reacting.

 

I would therefore hope that if you can get a professionally presented and detailed valuation from a reliable instrument expert, perhaps supported by photographs and an explanatory letter from yourself, some agreement can be reached. Frankly, the risk is very much less than it would be for an expensive set of camera equipment, a ring or necklace of similar value, or a set of coarse fishing equipment. All you need to do is persuade the underwriter of that.

 

Failing that, you may consider going through a specialist insurer such as one that might advertise in the professional music/entertainment press.

[Alan Miller]

Bruce: Because of limitations in the homeowners coverage, I have my concertinas insured as scheduled personal property. That covers not only theft but many other possible causes of loss. I simply give the agent a copy of the invoice for the concertina with a full description. Then I insure for a specific dollar amount of my choice that is greater than the invoice price. It is replacement coverage, and I tell the agent that I am insuring for an amount higher than the cost because of the difficulty in obtaining a replacement. They accept this. If I were to have a loss, I would be able to recover the cost of replacement up to the limit that I have insured for. Alan

[Larryo]

Firstly, can I wish everyone a Happy New Year and many happy hours of playing in 2007. Secondly a "thank you" to all who helped me on different matters since I started playing three months ago.

To the matter in hand- I rang my insurance broker the other day to take off a banjo as a specified item which I had sold to finance concertina purchase and asked that they put the concertina on the insurance. First question-whats a concertina. How does one describe a concertina I thought? It's like an accordian only smaller. Second question-is that a musical instrument? mmmnn..getting worried now. I now have to go through the steps as discussed above..explain the rising cost and waiting time. How can you explain that God forbid if a concertina is stolen it is a three year/four year waiting list to get a new one and that there is no money will compensate !!

[asdormire]

There is a discussion of this that happened in August, I believe, in the forum announcements.

 

We also have our instruments as scheduled property. Eleven years ago, we had two twelve strings stolen out of the car, one scheduled and the other wasn't (it had been purchased 2 monthes earlier, and had't been added yet). We sent in the claim, after getting quotes from two local shops we did business with. On the claim, Robin listed not only the guitars, but all the little items in the cases as well (straps, tuners, capos, etc.) The initial offer was made only on the scheduled item. She called back, and asked about the second guitar and the underwriter included the value of that as well. The other sundries he said would be covered under the household deductable of $250, which was more than generous.

 

Generally, when we add an item, if it was bought new, or from a shop, the bill of sale is generally acceptable, or the manufactures list. Those we pick up from other sources, we can generally get a quote from a shop we do business with. The scheduled items are all done as riders to my household policy.

 

Alan

[Dave Prebble]

Hi to all and a Happy new year.

 

Being over 50 (halfway, I am reliably informed ), I can get insurance through Saga.

 

I have all the concertinas insured on the household policy for loss or damage within the house up to a stated maximum value and any two of them at any one time for 'all risks' outside the house, again up to a stated value. This is not cheap as the sums insured are frighteningly large, but setting up the insurance was a easy process with this company.

 

Chris Algar, Barleycorn concertinas has provided insurance valuations for years at a nominal cost. So far as I understand it, he has had no problems being accepted as an expert (certified or not) and so it should be as he is, and has been for some 30 years, far and away the biggest concertina dealer in the world. Do remember to have comprehensive photos of you instruments preferably stored away from the house.

 

Whatever route you chose, do get them insured. It provides some peace of mind though as has been said, mere replacement is not the only issue here.

 

Regards

 

Dave

[Alan Day]

I too have my concertinas insured under my Houshold Policy, but you must make sure they are named items not just listed in your personal effects.I will repeat what I said in the previous discussion on this point,that named items value is deducted from your overall insurance cover,make sure that items outside the scope of valuable named items are fully covered by your insurance.I have also got two of my concertinas insured for out of the house cover,when I go to gigs,sessions etc., the two I normally take have seperate cover just in case they are stolen.

Most Auction Houses will give you a written valuation,for which they will charge you a fee.You will need photos of your concertina for the valuation as well as taking the instrument.Auction Houses have the correct certification requirements.This information is then sent to your Insurance Company for their records and you keep a copy.

Hope this helps

Al

[hjcjones]

Whilst I have had no problems insuring concertinas, along with other musical instruments, under my household policy, they will not insure them if they are being played professionally. They are covered under "all-risks" so I can take them out of the house to play them, just as long as no money changes hands. Neither my insurance broker nor the underwriter were able to explain the logic of this.

 

The instruments and other equipment I use for paying gigs are insured through a specialist musical instrument insurance broker, who understands that the risks for a folk musician are different from a rock band, and is not fazed when asked to insure obscure instruments.

Edited January 1, 2007 by hjcjones

[d.elliott]

I have often been asked for insurance valuations as part of a restoration exercise, I ensure that the amount I give is a little in excess of the potential re-sale or dealer purchase price. The value at the point of a claim has to be enough to command the market place, to ensure the claimant's being able to get the closest 'fit' to the insrument lost.

 

Photo's are good, showing unique or defining characteristics, and serial numbers!

 

Dave

[frogspawn]

Having just acquired a rather more valuable (antique) concertina I simply had it added as a named item on my household contents. The description and value (basically the price I paid for it - circa £1500) were accepted over the phone. I was told this would cover amateur usage outside the house. This addition won't affect my existing premium but might affect renewal.

 

It sounds like arrangements/stipulations vary a lot from company to company.

 

Richard

[Pam B]

The best way to avoid this problem is by reaching a prior agreement on the value of an item. The item can then be specified on the policy at a given sum insured - which is approximately where you are now.

 

 

 

Per Mikefule's comment, this is what my homeowner's agent suggested. He said there was a limit of $1,000 on any and all instruments, no matter the value under my regular policy, but I was able to attach a rider ($22.00/per year) to cover all of my instruments. The amount was based on the documentation I provided them...a recipt for purchase, and two written appraisals from the Button Box. I have the opportunity annually to resubmit appraisals, based on increase in value (which will also increase my payments.) The replacement value is based on the documentation I provided.

 

 

 

Let's hope I never need to test this!

 

 

 

Happy, Healthy, Safe New Year to all of us and to our passions.

[Lawrence Reeves]

My experience with insuring instruments is as follows. I have what my provider calls an "inland marine policy for professional use" I have provided either receipts or appraisals for all instruments covered by the policy. I have chosen not to include small items such as tin whistles, and microphones on the policy to keep just the real valuables on the list. My advice to any player that travels to festival/ worshops or sessions to consider such a policy.Covering my instruments costs me about 100 a year. Included are 5 wooden flutes, a 10 string mandolin . 2 concertinas, and a fiddle. One of my friends has a single instrument ( bouzouki) covered for around 25 bucks a year. In the event of a loss due to theft or damage the insurance company will pay for the appraised value, but this still presents the key problem of "replacing" them.

[Bruce McCaskey]

Thanks for sharing perspective and experiences on this topic. I've managed to acquire several concertinas over the last few years and to date the only insurance on them is whatever generic protection my homeowner's policy provides under their blanket provisions for items not specifically declared.

 

My wife had her jewelry stolen on a recent cruise and it served as a wakeup and inspiration to take steps to ensure the concertinas are fully covered. I'm going to explore the matter more fully with two home-insurance companies as well as a few companies that offer instrument-specific coverage. As described at the start of this thread my initial efforts weren't encouraging, but I feel far better informed now and more prepared to deal with the issues related to securing appropriate insurance.

[Alan Day]

Thanks for sharing perspective and experiences on this topic. I've managed to acquire several concertinas over the last few years and to date the only insurance on them is whatever generic protection my homeowner's policy provides under their blanket provisions for items not specifically declared.

 

My wife had her jewelry stolen on a recent cruise and it served as a wakeup and inspiration to take steps to ensure the concertinas are fully covered. I'm going to explore the matter more fully with two home-insurance companies as well as a few companies that offer instrument-specific coverage. As described at the start of this thread my initial efforts weren't encouraging, but I feel far better informed now and more prepared to deal with the issues related to securing appropriate insurance.

 

As a general point it is well worth going through the house and insure individual items like jewelry,

ornaments,collections,antiques musical instruments etc and get them individualy named and values put against them,this will then leave you with the general contents valuation which is what you have now.

The individual items would not be included in the general contents valuation so it enables you to make sure you have sufficient cover.For items taken out of the house like our concertinas a separate cover is worth paying for.

Al