Best Box For Vocal Accompaniment

[thehomevillecircle]

Hello. My name is Justin. I have a band called The Homeville Circle. I'm thinking of getting a concertina, and I was wondering, what would be the best box for primarily vocal accompaniment? I'm thinking of primarily chordial playing with some melodic interludes in between. Which system would be the best? Right now, the Jack looks pretty great (it sets below my vocal range instead of above), but how is the english system for chording?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Paul Read]

Hello. My name is Justin. I have a band called The Homeville Circle. I'm thinking of getting a concertina, and I was wondering, what would be the best box for primarily vocal accompaniment? I'm thinking of primarily chordial playing with some melodic interludes in between. Which system would be the best? Right now, the Jack looks pretty great (it sets below my vocal range instead of above), but how is the english system for chording?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Ideal

[Rhomylly]

The English is generally considered (generally, mind you, there are exceptions) to be the kind of concertina to get for song accompaniment.

 

Since the difference between the Jack and the Jackie is range, I guess that would depend on whether you're a baritone or a tenor

 

You didn't say what genre of music your band plays, so let us know and we can probably recommend some recordings to give you an idea of what's possible!

[thehomevillecircle]

You didn't say what genre of music your band plays, so let us know and we can probably recommend some recordings to give you an idea of what's possible!

 

First of all, thank you guys for the response.

 

The genre of music that I play gets a bit tricky, because I've tried (to arguable degrees of success) to invent a new one. I call it "midwestern shambling" or "fever-folk" sometimes. I want to sound like an old folk music that never actually existed, but might have in the American Midwest after the migrations from the South and Europe (that way, I can make up the rules as I go!). Imagine a fever-dream in which an Ohio antique store comes to life and starts singing you songs. I suppose our closest touchstones might be Mule Variations era Tom Waits, Neutral Milk Hotel, Syd Barrett hanging out with The Carter Family, or a huge jam-session with all the contributers on the Nuggetts box set with all the guys on the Anthology of American Folk Music.

 

Or you can just listen:

The Homeville Circle

 

Until now I've been using an old air-organ I found in the garbage for my free-reed sound, but it's not very practical or portable (it always needs plugged in), and some reeds are going out. Plus I love the way concertinas look!

 

Sorry, I always sound like a knob when I talk about my own music.

[Chris Timson]

The English is generally considered (generally, mind you, there are exceptions) to be the kind of concertina to get for song accompaniment.

Well, I would disagree with you there. I don't believe I have ever seen a ground swell of opinion that says any system is better than the others for song accompaniment.

 

As I say in the other thread that is going on this subject, I think both systems are pretty capable of song accompaniment, and you only have to hear people like Tim Laycock and David Cornell to accept that duets are capable of good song accompaniment as well.

 

Chris

[Mark Evans]

Stereo threads!

Edited October 7, 2006 by Mark Evans

[JimLucas]

I'm thinking of getting a concertina, and I was wondering, what would be the best box for primarily vocal accompaniment?

Answer #1: Any of them.

Answer #2: The one you're personally most comfortable playing.

 

I'm serious about that. I think any one of the systems will be able to do accompaniments in just about any style you want. But some people find one or another kind of concertina to be far more "natural" for themselves than the others, and some find one kind or another to be "impossible" for them. You should try them all (or at least English and anglo) and choose the one that "works best" for you.

 

...how is the english system for chording?

Ideal

In essence I agree with Paul, but I think a bit of clarification is in order. If you just want to play chords -- even incessant oom-pah style chording, -- the English is superb. If you want to do that oom-pah stuff and simultaneously play the melody, that's one thing that's very difficult (some would say "impossible") on the English. But it's still fairly easy to do things on the English that give a similar feel.

 

The English is generally considered (generally, mind you, there are exceptions) to be the kind of concertina to get for song accompaniment.

Some people may say that, but it's certainly not "generally" accepted in the world at large.

 

And in repeating that, Rhomylly, I think you're doing a disservice to one of your own heros: John Roberts. He has used both English and anglo to accompany himself, but these days primarily anglo, and you know he does it wonderfully!

 

Since the difference between the Jack and the Jackie is range, I guess that would depend on whether you're a baritone or a tenor

AND on how he wants his voice to sound in combination with the concertina. I know many people feel that an accompaniment needs to be lower than the voice, but in my experience that's more prejudice than fact. Louis Killen, e.g., often plays an accompaniment two octaves above his voice. My own accompaniments may be above my voice, below it (I have baritone and bass concertinas), or in the same range, depending on the song and the mood I want to set.

[thehomevillecircle]

Update:

 

Well, after three or so years, that air-organ (affectionatly called "wheezy") finally gave out before a show last night. The need for a new free-reed source has become more urgent.

[squeezora]

Jim Lucas wrote:

 

2006, 05:33 PM']Ideal

In essence I agree with Paul, but I think a bit of clarification is in order. If you just want to play chords -- even incessant oom-pah style chording, -- the English is superb. If you want to do that oom-pah stuff and simultaneously play the melody, that's one thing that's very difficult (some would say "impossible") on the English. But it's still fairly easy to do things on the English that give a similar feel.

 

 

Hi,

 

I play English and I am mystified by the above statement. It is possible, even natural, to play some of the most complicated vocal accompanyments, written for any one instrument, on the concertina. These include chords in rythmic order and counter melodies played at the same time. The entire English Lute Song repertoire accompaniments written for the lute, are playable on the English Concertina and would be extremely difficult or nearly impossible to play on an Anglo. They are playable on a Duet though. Maybe you meant to write Anglo above, when you wrote English.

 

regards,

Juliette

[Daniel Hersh]

Jim Lucas wrote:

 

2006, 05:33 PM']Ideal

In essence I agree with Paul, but I think a bit of clarification is in order. If you just want to play chords -- even incessant oom-pah style chording, -- the English is superb. If you want to do that oom-pah stuff and simultaneously play the melody, that's one thing that's very difficult (some would say "impossible") on the English. But it's still fairly easy to do things on the English that give a similar feel.

 

Hi,

 

I play English and I am mystified by the above statement. It is possible, even natural, to play some of the most complicated vocal accompanyments, written for any one instrument, on the concertina. These include chords in rythmic order and counter melodies played at the same time. The entire English Lute Song repertoire accompaniments written for the lute, are playable on the English Concertina and would be extremely difficult or nearly impossible to play on an Anglo. They are playable on a Duet though. Maybe you meant to write Anglo above, when you wrote English.

 

regards,

Juliette

 

Juliette, you can do things with an English that ordinary mortals can only dream of. Your statement that this is "natural" reminds me of something I heard from a very young, very talented musician who I know well--"I'm not that great, but everyone else is really bad!"

 

You're right that it's technically impossible to do a number of chords/simultaneous note combinations on a standard 30-button Anglo, because the notes aren't always available in the same bellows direction. But it's not at all hard on an Anglo to come up with one's own melody/accompaniment arrangements for many traditional tunes as long as one stays near the home keys, and I think that's what Jim was saying. If you stay primarily on one row at a time the notes of the chords come almost automatically. I don't play English myself, but my sense is that for most English players finding the notes for this style of playing requires quite a bit more thought and planning.

 

Daniel

[RatFace]

I expect to get lynched for the following, but I don't care

 

Listening to your band I can imagine a 2-row melodeon fitting in pretty well - both in terms of the sound (English-style construction concertinas might sound a bit "refined" for the sound you seem to be aiming for) and "natural feel".

 

I don't know whether your leanings were towards concertinas in particular, or "squeezeboxes" in general.

 

It's true that if you put the work in you can do pretty much anything with any instrument... but some instruments _do_ have natural tendences. If you want to use your new instrument in the wild as soon as possible (e.g. less than a year) then it's worth considering the natural tendencies, and everyone making suggestions considering them too.

 

Speaking as a fairly experienced English player, I'd be really struggling to make an English system concertina fit the sound/style on your myspace pages.

 

Assuming the keys you play in are not required by your singer to be really "way-out", if it must be a concertina, an Anglo would fit OK. However, a decent Anglo will set you back much more than a TOP-quality melodeon (probably) - and I still reckon the melodeon sound would fit better (and many melodeons have stops to adjust which of the multiple reed backs play). Learning times would probably be similar on both (I play melodeon, but not Anglo, so this is a half-guess!).

 

Duet - could work... if you can find one. Almost certainly harder to learn (up to the level needed to play out) than Anglo, though.

 

For some sounds by people on concertina.net go here, though there is probably more variation in music style/sound there due to the player than the instrument... Definitely listen to Stuart Estell's recordings there (duet and anglo in various band settings).

[thehomevillecircle]

Thank you for the advice, ratface.

 

I considered a two-row melodica, such as the pokerwork. Really, I like the look of these best, and Julian Koster of the Neutral Milk Hotel and The Music Tapes uses one. For some reason, however, I'm put off by the idea of bellow direction changing the note. It seems like it might be difficult to remember. I suppose that's why I thought english might be nice; that and it's fully chromatic. Is bellow direction a difficult thing to get used to? Do you know of any place that has sound samples of a two-row melodeon?

 

Also, I very much enjoyed Stuart Estell's recordings. I'll Be Your Mirror is great!

Edited October 8, 2006 by thehomevillecircle

[JimLucas]

Is bellow direction a difficult thing to get used to?

Some folks -- I'm one -- find it difficult, but not impossible. Some say they find it impossible. Others say that (for them) it's the only thing that makes sense. And the English has it's own weirdness: Instead of the notes of the scale alternating directions of the bellows, they alternate ends of the instrument.

 

I still think the best thing for you would be to try the different instruments -- definitely including melodeons... and why not the piano accordion or chromatic button accordion, while you're at it? -- to find the one that you're most comfortable with. You may discover that actually playing an instrument is quite different from what you imagined it to be.

 

Do you know of any place that has sound samples of a two-row melodeon?

I suspect you should ask that question on melodeon.net. I don't hang out there, but some others here wear both hats, and I'm sure they'd be happy to advise you.

[RatFace]

I considered a two-row melodica, such as the pokerwork.

 

melodica is something quite different to melodeon - be careful what you ask for!!

 

I think your fears over the in/out thing are probably unfounded. So long as you play in keys that are close to the "home" keys of the melodeon (or Anglo) it feels pretty natural - it did for me even though I started playing melodeon after about 10 years playing English. The "home keys" of a D/G tuned melodeon are D, G and Em. The more you go outside these keys, the more you'll be fighting the system, and a stock 2-row box won't even have all the notes/chords. However... you could (seriously) pick up 4 useable Hohner Pokerworks in different keys (if you can find them!) for the price of one just-about playable Anglo/English concertina.

 

Piano or button (chromatic) accordion is yet another option, especially if you're worried about the key limitations of melodeon/anglo...

 

Edit: Oh yes - ideally try as much as you can - ideally borrow an instrument or two for a couple of days, since it can take at least that long to "get" some of the weirdness in some systems...

Edited October 8, 2006 by RatFace

[Chris Allert]

if you are replacing a harmonica with a concertina, then i think you'd be best off getting an anglo. especially based on your description of what your band is trying to accomplish ("american folk-y" or something). an anglo is basically two harmonicas, and as has been suggested often on this thread, the "rochelle" by wim wakker ( www.concertinaconnection.com ) is a good basic instrument, and probably satisfactory for song accompinament.

 

on a side note, did anyone else see the stagi being played to accompany the dixie chicks in the recent pbs special?

Edited October 8, 2006 by Chris Allert

[JimLucas]

...I think a bit of clarification is in order. If you just want to play chords -- even incessant oom-pah style chording, -- the English is superb. If you want to do that oom-pah stuff and simultaneously play the melody, that's one thing that's very difficult (some would say "impossible") on the English. But it's still fairly easy to do things on the English that give a similar feel.

I play English and I am mystified by the above statement.

...

Maybe you meant to write Anglo above, when you wrote English.

Nope, Juliette, I meant the English, even though it's my main squeeze. No matter what the instrument, it will always be possible to find something that will be difficult on it.

 

No time to do so at the moment, but remind me in a week or so, and I'll try to send you some writen-out examples of what I'm talking about. (Also please note that I suggested that what some others would call "impossible", I would consider only "very difficult". )