Chris Allert

Hi everyone, Yes, that's my listing. I posted it for sale here a year and a half ago, but didn't get much interest. Sorry about the weird unholy ebay account (but we all suspected ebay was the work of the Devil right?) I created that ebay account for another art project, but ended up using etsy for that instead. (have lots more sales there…) Anyway, you'll see that I've sold a few other electronic music related items on that ebay account. Anyway, now that the item has a couple bids, i'm stuck selling it there and paying ebay's outrageous 10% commission. Someone wrote in to the ebay account to suggest that there may be a few design flaws with the instrument. I didn't really play it enough to discover these, though I will comment here on what I noticed: 1. It sends a MIDI "all notes off" message with every bellows change. I used to filter it out with a MIDI Solutions Event Processor (I'll include one of these with the item if you want it. You need a windows computer to edit it and use it) 2. It doesn't feel quite the same as a real concertina. Pressing the air button doesn't really let you squeeze or draw the bellows any faster than just pressing one note. that's because all air passes through a single hole in the piece of wood inside the instrument that is there instead of a reed pan. This hole is the right size to let in about the same amount of air as a reed would. You can get used to it, and if you play the concertina, you'll be able to play this, but it won't ever quite feel the same, and you *really* need to manage your air flow more than you would with a standard concertina. 3. I tried hooking this instrument up to an iPad with GarageBand using a midi->usb->ipod dock interface and it did not work well. I could have probably fixed the problems with the event processor mentioned in #1, but had better things to do with my time. 4. It still worked well with my Dave Smith Evolvers last time i tried it, so i suspect there's something weird with the ios midi implementation, and it should work well with any real synthesizer. 5. I have a couple midi->usb interfaces lying around collecting dust. I'll include one with the instrument. 6. THIS IS BEING SOLD AS IS! It works, but I can't promise it's going to work well for you. Everyone who has owned one of these is aware of the issues with this instrument and you should be able to get it to work for you with help from other owners on this list. BUT THERE ARE NO RETURNS. I'm selling all my electronic music gear because my girlfriend and I are having a baby and i'm focusing on other projects. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE OWNED ONE OF THESE BEFORE BIDDING! 7. Sorry about the all caps in the previous item. 8. The custom case from Greg Jowaisas is very excellent. He made two other cases for my other two instruments (both sold now). He does really great work and I hope he's still making these. 9. I don't know why Wim Wakker stopped making these. He probably got busy filling orders. If you want one now you have to buy a used one and put up with any design issues it has. 10. I've added a link from the ebay listing to this thread so this is probably the best place for people to talk about it.

I've gotten a few questions/inquiries on this, so i'll try to answer them here: 1. What kind of pressure does it take to play/how does it feel? This is kind of subjective. It seems to allow quite a bit less airflow than any other concertina i've played. I remember wim wakker writing something about this in another thread here, saying that the air-flow/pressure is about the same as the concertinas he makes, and that someone else replied that the retrofitted lachenal midi he'd tried felt a lot more natural to play (I don't remember the maker of these. It's someone in England, i think). The air flow is not adjustable. Instead of a reed-pan, there's a flat piece of wood with a hole in it meant to allow about the same amount of air through as a reed would. You could probably enlarge the hole to allow more air, but i'm guessing that would cause other problems with the pressure sensor inside the instrument. My other observation is that the air button doesn't really let much air through, since the air is just going through the same hole as when a note is playing. But it is still a very expressive controller, it just takes practice and needs to be played a little differently from a reeded concertina. 2. What's the serial number? It says "AMC 0643" on the instrument. I think i actually acquired it in 2006, not 2007, which is what the "06" in the serial refers to (instrument #43 of 2006?) 3. What color is it? Black french polish finish. White leather baffles behind the grill. It looks just like the one on the web-site, except solid black. 4. do you plug it in? The concertina itself is battery powered, and needs to be charged. It's connected wirelessly to the midi box that plugs into a computer. to charge it, there's a cord that runs from one of the midi ports on the gizmo to the concertina. If i remember correctly, I don't think it can be played while charging. Unfortunately I can't locate the manual right now, but it's got to be around here somewhere. 5. Is one side of the instrument heavier than the other? Not as far as i can tell. Wim seems to have done an excellent job of getting the weight right. It's actually considerably lighter than a reeded concertina, and I definitely don't get the feeling of all the electronics being on one side. 6. Does the concertina include a synthesizer? No, it's just a midi controller, and a very expressive one. You'll need your own midi cables and midi interface to your computer or a synthesizer with midi in. 7. Anything else I should know? Changing bellows direction sends a midi all-notes-off message. I found that this meant i had to fiddle with the synthesizer settings a little to deal with this (on all my now sold analog equipment, it's not the same as getting individual note off messages for all the currently pressed buttons, even though in theory it should be) 8. Does the instrument work? I'm 99% sure it does. It's in new condition, i've only played it about a dozen times. But it's just been sitting in its case for a couple years. I'm currently recharging it, looking for cables around the house, and i'll try to post a video sometime in the next few days of me playing it through my computer or iPad. 8. Where can i find out more? here's wim wakker's page on the instrument: http://www.concertinaconnection.com/wakker%20midi.htm

I have a wakker midi anglo with a custom case from Greg jowaisas. I think I bought it back in 2007 directly from wim wakker. I can't remember what I paid for it. Maybe around US$2000 anyway, best offer gets it. You'll probably get the best info on it from wim wakker. I used it to drive a Dave smith evolver, but never really spent enough time with it. It's a beautifully constructed instrument. And the case Greg jowaisas made for me is great, holding both the concertina as well as the wireless gizmo you plug into your synthesizer or computer. I didn't really find a concertina to be the ideal controller for monophonic analogue equipment, but it will probably be a great toy for someone else. Make an offer. You know you want to...

This instrument is now sold. Thanks to everyone for your interest.

here's a video about this instrument, just so you have a better idea of what you're getting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16pgWFr2b7M I have a couple offers on it, and i'll accept the highest one tuesday

I'm very sad to say i'll need to sell this instrument soon. It's a metal-ended c/g jeffries copy with jeffries bellows papers and jeffries layout. Juergen Suttner currently has a four year waiting list. to buy this instrument new from him would be about us$5000 with the current exchange rate. this is instrument #298, which I acquired new in 2005. He's gotten very good at making them. i've only played this instrument at home since i've had it. I've played it between 5-20 hours each week since i've owned it, so it's very well "broken in" by now. but there are no signs of wear on the bellows as i only rest the corner of the instrument on one leg. I'm in olympia, washington and can meet you either here or in seattle if you want to try the instrument out. if you're going to the noel hill summer school, this would be a very good instrument to take with you. you'll make a lot more progress on a good instrument than a mediocre one, and having something that sounds like a concertina really does help one get better more quickly (at least that was my experience). and you'll get more out of the summer school if you've had a good instrument to get used to for a few months before you go. all reasonable offers will be considered. i'm not sure what reasonable is until i hear it, so please bid what you can, you may be lucky.

This concertina is now sold. definitely going to a good home. i will miss her

Thanks Dana for the corrections and information This Concertina is still for sale. for the kensington, i'm considering all offers above dana johnson's new price of $3500. i'm hoping to get at least $4000 for it, but i'll sell it to whoever gives me the best offer over $3500 in the next few weeks. so this may be your chance to get a new kensington without waiting three years.

a few more details about the kensington in response to an e-mail inquiry: i'm selling instrument #37 key layout: i just checked note-for note, and everything is identical to my suttner A2 jeffries copy except: 1. push C# instead of Eb on right button 1 of right top (accidental) row 2. push high F natural instead of push high Eb on button 5 of right bottom (G) row so other than that, the suttner jeffries chart is accurate for the kensington: http://www.suttnerconcertinas.com/images/key_layout_jeff_31.gif

*** sold *** I have Kensington concertina shipped to me by Dana Johnson on June 21, 2010 for sale I really hate to part with this instrument, but i haven't spent the time with it that it really deserves, and i need to downsize and find a good home for it. I think i'd probably end up liking this instrument more than my suttner if i took the time to break it in properly, but i have to sell one or the other. here's what's for sale: one kensington, built in june 2010 with the small had-rest size, new condition with case. visit www.kensingtonconcertinas.com for more about this model a few things to keep in mind: 1. dana johnson has not accepted orders for new instruments since 2007 (please correct me if i'm wrong) 2. his current advertised price is $3000USD, (i'm guessing it will go up if he ever opens his books again) 3. i will post when i have received an acceptable offer for this instrument, and i will not sell it for less than $4500 within the next few weeks 4. i may keep the kensington if i receive an offer of over $7000 on my suttner, but i'm not sure if i'd accept this for the suttner (i'm very attached to it) 5. i can meet you in seattle or olympia, washington if you want to try the instrument (i live in olympia) please send inquiries to concertina@morelater.com

three concertinas for sale. the suttner is #298, C/G metal ended A2, jeffries layout. asking 6k usd. best offer gets it. buyer pays shipping. the edgley is an Ab/Eb, tuned for irish music. wheatstone layout. asking 2k usd. best offer gets it. buyer pays shipping. make me an offer on the wakker midi anglo. here's a video of me playing the suttner at home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPUNS5tNuBQ

sold. thanks everyone for looking.

I'm very reluctant to sell this, but i'm considering offers. this is for carroll #17 ( http://carrollconcertinas.com/17.html ) i haven't really played this instrument much. it's in Bb/F, and if you've read the other reviews of wally carroll's work, you'll have a good idea of this instrument's value. it has a jeffries key layout, and is tuned to young's well temperament. i'm the original owner, so the instrument is in nearly new condition. the only time it's left my apartment is when i moved to a different apartment in the same building a few months ago. anyway, i have to sell an instrument, and it's either this or my c/g suttner. i usually play the suttner. i think this instrument is worth at least the new price he's asking now, and due to the falling dollar, it's especially worth it for european or canadian buyers (assuming your economies don't collapse along with ours) i'm not really sure yet what the minimum i'll sell it for is, so please make offers, either by replying to this thread, or by sending me a pm through the forum. you can also contact me here: http://www.morelater.com/contact.html

if you blink, you'll miss it

sold

Thanks for your reply/comment David. I noticed the differences in the way Chris/Mark is playing. I never heard these variants on the Garden of Daisies before. A very nice video (with dancing) is shown .You can also check the version at thesessiun.org. i'm the person playing in this video. i was visiting my youtube addicted friend in new york and he wanted a video of my playing so he took the video using his computer's built-in camera and microphone. i learned this setting of the garden of daisies from the bernard o'sullivan/tommy macmahon album "irish traditional music of county clare" which i had on cassette and was the first concertina album i owned. it is now available in the newly released boxed set "the clare set" on cd. the concertina i'm playing in the video is suttner #298, which is a standard 31-key A-2.

Here is the link for ordering this set via the internet: http://www.free-reed.co.uk/anclar-06 Cheers, Dan this just arrived monday. july 12th was my birthday, so the first thing i did when i saw the link to this was click on it and buy myself the best birthday present i could have possibly hoped for. though a few of the albums in this set were already available, each of them here includes several previously unreleased tracks. the bernard o'sullivan and tommy mcmahon albums were two of the first concertina recordings i owned, and i have listened to them hundreds of times. it is really inspiring to have some new material from them to listen to that was recorded at the same time. there's an entire album's worth of extra tracks from them. anyway, i'd highly recommend that anyone considering this buy the entire set as it's worth it for all the extra tracks even if you own all these albums already. and make sure you buy the elizabeth crotty album too. i read on this forum a while back that someone is sitting on hours of field recordings of paddy murphy. are there any updates on when this might be released?

a new dipper and a new crabb??? it's just not fair... i'm curious though, did you try just tuning the crabb concertina as well?

a few weeks ago my curiosity got the better of me and i sent the concertina connection $285 for a rochelle. i haven't really played it much, but my first impression is that it is comparable in quality to a button box stagi. i like the sound better than the stagis i've tried though. i'd say it sounds a little more like a harmonica than an accordion. if you've tried a jackie, the rochelle, unsurprisingly, sounds and feels about the same. the placement of the buttons on the rochelle feels a little wierd to me. they are slightly closer to the hand rest than on most "real" concertinas. since the rochelle is so much larger that a higher-end model it feels kind of awkward. a stagi is about the same physical size as the rochelle, but stagis tend to have huge buttons spaced much farther apart. it is probably better to learn on a concertina like the rochelle as it will make it easier to transition to a better instrument. my feeling about this instrument is that it is a good choice if you can't afford anything better. if you can get between $1500 and $2500 together for a tedrow, edgley, or similar instrument, you will have a much better learning experience as a beginner. but it's a pretty steep jump between $285 and $1500. the rochelle i received was free of manufacturing defects, no sticking buttons or reeds. i'm thinking of taking up busking since the city of olympia recently passed a new anti-loitering ordinance that i feel i should defy. i can play an instrument like the rochelle outside, and replace it fairly easily in the unfortunate event that it is confiscated by a policeman (only room for one concertina in the evidence locker, i expect). with my other instruments, i don't really like to take them outside my living room since the were so much more difficult to acquire. in conclusion, i'd highly recommend the rochelle to beginners with very little money, as well as to more advanced players interested in violating so-called civility laws.

i agree that harmonica tunings aren't really relevant to concertinas designed for chromatic playing, but it seems that basing the tuning of a 20 button anglo on two harmonicas a pure fifth apart would give the purest sounding chords of most of the chords that are available, even taking into account playing across the rows. but i can see how there are some problems on the pull. (most obviously the bad E-B fifth). and once you start adding a third row things will only get worse. but i still think it would be a good system for players that never leave the c and g rows. maybe it's not a great system for the 40 button concertina dan is building if he plans to use many of those extra buttons. to clarify my proposal a little more (i realize the pages i linked to are not well documented): in both the push and pull tunings, the following notes are the same: G B D F# A C# you get these notes by setting D and F# a pure 5/4 major third apart, and the you get G, B, A, and C# as pure fifths above and below above and below D and F#. in the push tuning, C and E are obtained as pure fifths down from G and B, so you end up with pure C-E-G and G-B-D triads. on the pull you get F natural and C as pure 7/6 narrow minor thirds up from D and A respectively. because D and A are a pure fifth apart, so are F and C. E is a pure fifth up from A, and also a pure 9/7 up from C. the reason for using the 7/6 is to make the two chords B-D-F-A and F#-A-C-E sound better. this also means C and E on the pull are quite a bit off from C and E on the push. so on the push on the c and g row, you have C-E-G-B-D, all in pure intervals to one another. on the pull you have B-D-F-A, and tuned a pure fifth above that F#-A-C-E. the F#-F interval will sound harsh, and E-B will be a very bad 27/20 instead of a pure 3/2 as it is on the push. F-A-C will sound a little wierd since it is made up of the 9/7 F-A interval and the 7/6 A-C interval. but F-C on the pull is still a pure fifth, so the triad will still sound nice, and will add a little variety. the best minor triads will be D-F-A and A-C-E. E-G-B on the push and B-D-F# on the pull will sound good, though a little harsher since they are 5-limit minor triads instead of 7-limit. still, they'll sound better than equal temperament. D-F#-A on the pull is a pure major triad. if you add a C# to the pull, then A-C#-E is also a pure major triad, as is F-A-C#. B-D-F#-A and F-A-C#-E will also both sound equivalent and smooth. D-F-A-C should sound good too since D-F is a pure 7/6 interval and A-C are pure fifths above that. as a final disclaimer, when i started this thread i didn't intend to suggest that my tuning proposal reflects how concertinas were actually tuned before equal temperament. it is simply a tuning proposal that i think would be musically interesting and well suited to at least a few styles of playing, in particular the morris style of william kimber as described to me by dan worrall. i'm not sure what to suggest to those interested in historical accuracy. paul, are you taking orders for retuning? how long is the waiting list?

i think robin harrison's new dipper is tuned to the "push" temperament i described above but tuned lower. i'm glad to hear he's happy with it. i wonder if this means my name is slowly making its way up colin dipper's wait list... i'm not sure if i'll be able to try out this tuning idea any time soon, but maybe someone else will. there's probably some way i can hook my midi concertina up to the computer to try it (i think it allows different midi channels for the push and pull, but getting the computer or synthesizer to use a different temperament for each channel will take a little more work). dan, if you're interested, here are settings that might work well on a g/d anglo: push: ("best key" of d, low note of g, a=440) http://www.morelater.com/scales/just.cgi?r...&low_note=7 pull: ("best key" of a, low note of a, a=440) http://www.morelater.com/scales/just75.cgi...&low_note=9 paul, i'm happy to see you are still around to comment on this and i hope your work gets published soon, though i suppose something will have been lost once the mystery surrounding your research has been removed. but please let me know when you begin taking preorders for your book and i'll be at the top of the list.

i might agree that this system wouldn't work very well for the way many people play irish music today, myself included. but it seems like it might be better for someone who plays up and down the rows and wants to use a lot of adjacent button thirds and fifths for accompinament. i've heard that william kimber played this way, and i wonder if the style he developed had something to do with the way his concertina was tuned. i was actually thinking that it might be nice to have some of the duplicate notes sounding very different on the push than the pull since it might give one more options for giving a tune a different flavor. for most irish music played in d and g, it would only be the c natural that would be different depending direction. but the difference would be very noticable. the c natural is a very important note in a lot of tunes and the way a lot of tunes use c sharp in some phrases and c natural in others is an important part of what gives the music its character. but maybe in practice having two c naturals wouldn't be as useful since you would also have to phrase things differently depending on whether you wanted the push c or the pull c. i guess there's only one way to find out...

i've heard second-hand from someone that paul groff believes anglos would have historically been tuned differently for the push notes than the pull notes. i also know this would be consistent with how many harmonicas are tuned, with a pure major triad for blowing and a 7-limit tuning for the draw. since i've also gotten a few e-mails from different people about ideas for just tuning anglos, i thought i'd post my current thoughts on the matter in the hopes that these thoughts can be corrected by those who know more about this than i. so here's an idea for tuning an c/g anglo: on the push, use a pure 5-limit just tuning that will fit all the notes on the c and g row: http://www.morelater.com/anglo/push.html and on the pull use this tuning: http://www.morelater.com/anglo/pull.html i've rendered some sound files of what the c-row would sould like here http://www.morelater.com/anglo/ (the different mp3 files are what it sounds like with different waveforms so you can get an idea of how the upper harmonics will interact with eachother) so to summarize, the c and g row are tuned a pure fifth apart, you get a pure major triad on the push for each row, and you get a very pure sounding diminished minor chord on the pull of either row. in addition D is the same in either direction (c-row pull or g-row push), so you can use that as a reference pitch. since G, D, and A are pure fifths apart in both the push and pull temperament, you can also use A as the reference pitch for both pushing and pulling. the accidental row is less straightforward. my instinct would be to just extend the system for each direction to all 12 notes. see the above push.html and pull.html files for my thoughts on what the notes should "logically" be in either system. the file http://www.morelater.com/anglo/push7.html is another option for tuning the push accidentals. to try different settings, you can use the following utilities i wrote (and which i used to generate the above tuning tables): 5-limit just scale calculator: http://www.morelater.com/scales/just.html 7-limit calculator: http://www.morelater.com/scales/just75.html to browse my hastily written and undocumented source code, go here: http://www.morelater.com/scales and click on any of the .txt files to see the source for the corresponding cgi program

can you tell the rest of us more about south african tuning? is it a different temperament? or is it just the arrangement of the notes that's different?

i've been playing suttner #298 since spring 2006, when it was made, and while it's still too early to tell, it seems to be at least as good as #128, which was made in summer 2000. but it's a difficult comparison since i no longer have the old instrument to compare with the new one. mine is also the standard a-2 model.