New and Improved Stagi?

[Ubizmo]

I notice that this concertina, https://www.libertybellows.com/shop/Concertinas/Anglo-Concertinas--30-Buttons/p/NEW-Black-Stagi-W-15LN-Anglo-Concertina-CG-M-30-x35303042.htm, is branded "Concertine Italia", not Stagi, but the accompanying video, which is ten years old, is branded Stagi. I wonder if this means that this is an improved, or at least different, instrument. It certainly suggests that the company is not highlighting the Stagi brand name anymore. 

 

I plan to go to the shop to try this concertina sometime soon. Apart from just playing it a bit, is there anything else I should be looking at as indicators of good or bad workmanship?

[alex_holden]

Concertine Italia now owns the Stagi and Bastari brands. Here's a video of a visit to the factory:

 

 

[DaveRo]

1 hour ago, Ubizmo said:

...branded "Concertine Italia", not Stagi...

Perhaps they've taken David's advice here:

https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/25812-a-video-visit-to-concertine-italia-the-successor-to-bastari-and-stagi/&do=findComment&comment=224476

 

[Ubizmo]

6 hours ago, DaveRo said:

Perhaps they've taken David's advice here:

https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/25812-a-video-visit-to-concertine-italia-the-successor-to-bastari-and-stagi/&do=findComment&comment=224476

 

 That's what I'm wondering. The shop, Liberty Bellows, is still listing it as Stagi, and pairing that listing with an old video, but the concertina itself looks a bit different, and obviously the branding is different. 

I did watch the video about the visit to the shop in La Marche. It's hard to infer much from that about the quality of the instruments they make now. I wondered if anyone here had any experience with these new ones. 

I do plan to visit the shop and try it out. 

[Ubizmo]

This, Liberty Bellows, is the link to the Liberty Bellows current Anglo concertina stock. As you can see, there are three listed as "Stagi." All three show, in the picture, the "Concertine Italia" tag. If you look at the associated videos, you'll see that, in addition to the W-15LN, which I linked above in this thread, the M-5 is also linked to a video that's eight years old. In that video, the concertina being played not only has the word "Stagi" printed on it, but the concertina itself looks a bit different. The M-40, however, has a video that's only two years old, and it looks like the one in the listing photo.

 

I'd add that, if appearances mean anything, the person playing in the M-40 video appears to be working pretty hard to work the bellows on the M-40. I also note that the hand rails on the "Stagi" concertinas are visibly higher than the one on the McNeela or, for that matter, my Rochelle-2.

 

Anyway, when I get to the shop in the next few days, if they still have the W-15LN, I'll try it and report back.

[Ubizmo]

I went to Liberty Bellows today and had a look around. They had the older Stagi branded concertina as well as the newer Concertine Italia version of the same model, the W-15 LN. The older one cost $200 less. 

 

I played both. At first, I preferred the Stagi to the CI. It played more freely, but the buttons also seemed a bit looser and jiggly, which I didn't like. Both felt significantly more responsive than my Rochelle-2. Also the volume was more uniform across notes, whereas the Rochelle has "hot" and "cold" notes. 

 

I played for a while, testing every button. Gradually, I came to prefer the newer model, the CI. The metal buttons were more stable and the bellows, though stiff to begin with, seemed to relax as I played. I thought that was odd but maybe it was just cold on that bottom shelf. 

 

There was one note I didn't like and I pointed it out to the technician. He agreed that it was stuffy, so he opened the concertina up and did some adjustment to the reed. That took care of it. 

 

I mentioned before that the hand rails looked higher on this instrument than one either the Rochelle or the McNeela in the photo. They definitely are higher. They had the McNeela in the shop and I played that too. I like the high rails, it's an advantage with my large hands. Indeed, the button spread is wider on the CI than on the Rochelle-2 and I found that quite nice too. 

 

So, I went ahead and traded in the Rochelle-2 and bought the CI. The only real downside was it didn't come with a proper case, not even a soft gig bag, just a crappy drawstring sack. On the whole, it's a bit quieter than the Rochelle, and that's not a bad thing for me. In volume, it's very much like the Jackie English I have. The hand straps are wider, and made of stiffer leather. Between them and the higher rails, I feel a much more secure connection with the instrument.

 

It's under warranty for a year, in case any problem crop up. I asked him why there are only two authorized dealers in the US and he said it's because the two ladies making them in Italy can be pretty slow filling orders, and most music shops don't want to hold a large concertina inventory. Even Liberty Bellows, specializing in accordions of all kinds, doesn't keep that many concertinas in stock. 

 

I'll update this thread as I get to know this concertina, for the benefit of anyone else who might be looking at Concertine Italia. 

[Steve Schulteis]

I'd be interested in seeing photos of the insides of you're up for that.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Yes, those two ladies in Italy seem to be doing a majority of the construction themelves.

My concertina was from the Brunner in Italy ( going back before 1999)

Steel reeds, real mahogany veneered frame, brown leather bellows. They can be stiff to  begin with and buttons move a lot .. but they adjust to your hands over time. 

And, I have stuck with mine for nearly 25 years now. I like the big sound, myself. All my recordings ( featured on my own video or audio prensentations  are on that one concertina.

[Ubizmo]

2 hours ago, Steve Schulteis said:

I'd be interested in seeing photos of the insides of you're up for that.

Why not?

The date on the wood is 14 July 2023.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ubizmo

[Steve Schulteis]

Thanks. I guess I should have been more specific, because I'm especially curious to see the action (the button levers).

[Ubizmo]

As I play this CI (I'm sure the basic design is the same as the Stagi, but I'm following the rebranding to distinguish the Concertine Italia version from its predecessor), I notice more details, some good, some not so good. Among the not so good is the fact that the air button is hard to reach, even with my large hands. It's reachable, but I have to stretch a bit for it.

 

The buttons are metal, and domed. This just takes some getting used to, after the flatter delrin (or something) pistons of the Rochelle-2, but it's not uncomfortable.

 

Ergonomically, on this instrument I can--indeed, must--thrust my hands right through the straps, all the way. I like this. On the Rochelle-2, if I did that, I would overshoot the buttons. The CI key spread is definitely friendlier to my hands. That said, I have to get used to longer reach for the R1 and R6 buttons, which I'm just learning to use.

 

I'm unsure of the terminology here, but underneath the end plates, where the sound and air move through, there's a sheet of perforated metal, a kind of heavy foil. I'm not a huge fan of this, aesthetically. I imagine it would be possible to swap it out for some more understated mesh. I'll think about doing that at some point, if I find the right kind of material to use.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

My ( Hohner handed) Italian made concertina has a simple scrim material beneath its simple alloy face plate. The reeds are arranged differently also; there again mine is some 25 plus years old so suppose they have made alterations since then.

 

[Ubizmo]

I suppose the purpose of this is to let air and sound through while keeping dust out. The Rochelle had some kind of fabric similar to what you described. I imagine some very fine mesh window screen would also do the job. 

[DaveRo]

9 hours ago, Ubizmo said:

...sheet of perforated metal...

Like on this Hayden?

https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/23226-stagi-hayden-duet-concertina/&do=findComment&comment=212202

 

As you see that had 'Stagi' cut into the fretwork (I bought it 2 years ago). Earlier ones had 'Bastari' there see picture on wikipedia and Stagi in huge white letters on the side.

[alex_holden]

You don't really need the mesh behind the fretwork; most high-end concertinas don't have one. An alternative is 'speaker grille cloth', which is available pretty cheaply in a variety of colours.

[David Barnert]

28 minutes ago, DaveRo said:

Earlier ones had 'Bastari' there see picture on wikipedia and Stagi in huge white letters on the side.

 

Not much earlier. The Bastari Haydens from the 1980s were an entirely different design. Mine is on the right, here:

 

 

As the one in the Wikipedia article has a Fabbrica Concertine tag, it was likely made by Mrs. Simona and company after they acquired the Stagi and Bastari names.

 

[DaveRo]

Yes, I was only referring to Stagi-made ones and their evolving branding. I'd call yours a 'genuine' Bastari.

 

Here's the description of that wiki photo

 

Quote

A Hayden type duet concertina with 46 button keys. Bastari brand(sold as Stagi brand in foreign countries), made in Italy. Right hand. This photo was taken at TANIGUCHI GAKKI, or Taniguchi Musical Instruments Store, Ochanomzu, Tokyo.

 

I suspect that (the branding) is inaccurate.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by DaveRo

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Whilst it is great to share views about other concertinas under stagi name  ( or other models.. you don't let it all get in the way of enjoying playing your own instrument, and that is what it is also about; learning, understanding, and creating a music .. I could be a £10 old box from eBay. Or £10000, antique. They all have a function and value to each player regardless.

Edited December 2, 2023 by SIMON GABRIELOW