Cost of C/G to D/A conversion

[LR71]

What would the bill be for making over, say, a steel reed Lachenal?  Playing in A major on a 30 button C/G is a bit of a headache, that move from A to G# always gets me.  It'd be great if an extra button could be jimmied onto my main instrument, but I don't think it's feasible.  It'd be nice to just have a transposing instrument, and use G fingering for those pesky A tunes.  I've read on here that it can be done.  I play Irish music BTW so am purely interested in melodic playing. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by LR71

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

To be honest I would not really recommend having instruments changed in key like this. Many times I have worked on instruments which have been badly damaged by having their pitch changed, it seems to be the worst way in which old instruments can be wrecked sadly.

 

The last old instrument I worked on was in some sort of old pitch which translated as it being roughly 40-50 cents sharp from A4=440hz (im not sure what that old pitch standard was) and even with that I decided it was best to exercise extreme caution and add weight to the tip of every reed from middle C down as the reeds were already on the thin side. 

[Wally Carroll]

A full step up is quite drastic for tuning. Most repairers would recommend moving reeds around rather than tuning up all of the notes. For this shift you’d likely need a lot of extra reeds and many hours of labor (10-20) to get everything fit and properly tuned.  So maybe this would come out to between $600 and $1500 just for the labor and extra reeds.  If we’re talking a Lachenal . . . after adding in the initial cost of the instrument to be altered, you will probably end up with a fairly expensive, mediocre playing instrument in a key that few would want.  Alternatively, you could do what many Irish players do and use the “G-row” A button to break up the finger jump when going between the A and G#.   

[Chris Ghent]

i agree with Wally, only I’d put it, bite the bullet.  Learn to play well in A and you will add to your ability in other keys.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I think you should not take a drastic step in altering anything unless there is a real need [ myself anyway]. I have had to transcribe and transpose and still occasionally do but I have learned a lot from the process. Some tunes work altered - others do not sound as easy to play, so move onto another one rather than potentially ruin an instrument for that odd tune, jig, or reel, or whatever; there's a melody for everyone out there for all occasions if you want one.

[Leah Velleman]

There are some modern makers who do D/A instruments — I know Kensington does. That might be an easier way to get what you want.

[LR71]

I didn't know Dana builds D/A - I already play a Kensington.  A friend had a G/D built recently. 

 

I already play things like the Boys of Malin in A, I'm just never happy having to do so!  It seems unnatural, even the 2nd octvae, thanks for the mention of the G row A Wally - I try and use that in a lot of tunes, and it works, if I remember to do so!  It just that playing in that key on the fiddle or banjo is a total snap, and I just wish it were a bit more straightforward to do so.   I really think we'd have been better off with just a few more buttons.  I play the box too (both systems), and while the concertina is great with the huge menu of options there are passages on the box that just play themselves in comparison. 

 

Going over my big playlist of concertina recordings I notice only a few tunes in A - I'm really good with titles in Irish music - Brenda Castles plays a couple completely effortlessly, you even hear her take advantage of things like the pull Bb as a passing note.  And then a few others stand out.  But otherwise it's solid D/G/relative minors/A minor or mixolydian.  These musicians know about this material, it's interesting to me that they avoid it in the studio. 
 

[John Sylte]

For whatever it’s worth, I’ve done the C/G to D/A conversion myself, on two different twenty button Lachenals, and they turned out great. It helps to have a donor concertina for cannibalising reeds. Move around the original reeds as much as possible then swap out others and retune as necessary. It’s very affordable if you don’t mind doing the work yourself. And though I appreciate the previous advice and would like to get better at playing in A major on my C/G, it’s nice to just have the simple twenty button layout play in A. I like playing American old time tunes on concertina, and there’s a lot in A. So I’d say, go for it! 

[LR71]

Glad to hear it went well for you, John. 

 

Don't know if this if familiar to you, but in Irish music there are two tunings of button accordion, BC and C#D; the former involves playing across the rows, the latter up and down them, which is more push+pull, punchy, although any good player can smooth things out as needed.  There are very fast players of the C#D box, doubtless there would be of DA concertina too, if they weren't so rare.

 

I was surprised that Dan Worrell didn't mention these accordion tunings in his book on Chris Droney, who plays along the G row, only using the other rows when needed. His observations about CG players being more ornamented or flashy are much akin to complaints some have made about BC box players.