Acquiring accordion reed sets?

[Oberon]

This subject has probably been beaten to death, but I haven't found exactly the answer I'm looking for yet so here it is:

 

If you're not a maker or dealer, how difficult is it to aquire a single set of say, Binci professional or Voci Armoniche A Mano reeds? I know sizing of reeds is different for every company and every line, but barring that particular issue, has anyone had much success in just ordering the 30 reedplates you'd need for a C/G just once?

 

I'm considering ordering a set but I'm not sure how things go on that end. Many a tale has been told about various Italian reed makers being massively delayed in orders or non communicative entirely, and my attempts to reach out to Binci went nowhere.

 

Is Harmonikas better to deal with in that respect?

 

I'd love to hear your feedback! Thanks!

[Theo]

Rather than dealing with reed makers direct you would find it easier to deal with Carini.  There is a link on their home page to register as a new user.  They are accordion parts wholesalers, and keep reeds in stock form several Italian reed makers.   I've always found them helpful though sometimes slow to reply.  They communicate well in English. 

 

You also need to learn how to specify the reeds you want.  Italian makers have a numerical system for specifying the pitch of each reed.  This has middle C as 15 and goes up or down by one number pre semitone, so C# is 16, D 17 etc and C above middle C is 27, C# 28 etc.  I usually draw up a table showing the note name, and the code number.

 

[Łukasz Martynowicz]

I can recommend Harmonikas, especially their DIX range, which not only sound great, but are also easier to work with than italian reeds, as they are slightly shorter but also slightly wider for the same size, so can have larger clearance between the inner valve and the chamber wall. They do sell single sets and even single reeds. They also do have „concertina” range, though those are semi-traditional only, as they still have accordion style trapezoid tongues. However, their current lead time is around 12 weeks. 

[Oberon]

Thank you Theo and Łukasz, I appreciate the feedback! The numbering system is sensible, I'll just have to go through each of the reeds currently in my concertina and measure the reed plates as well, as I suspect that one companies Super Dural middle C reed may be different from a Tipo A Mano from another company. I'll start digging through Carini and see if I can sort this out

 

Harmonikas does seem to produce some pretty great reeds, and they actually put information on their site regarding their products which is refreshing next to companies like Binci.

 

I'm looking to upgrade my Ceili and Bob Snope told me they used Antonelli/Voci Armoniche for their TAM reeds, but I could not get dimensions or data on them beyond that. The Button Box Repair Shop will be closing in May (I think) for some time as Bob moves down south to relocate, and I was hoping to get this repair in before then (I live only an hour away), though with the wait times and order fulfillment speeds these reed companies seem to have, that'll probably be unlikely. I did ask Bob if he still had Ceili TAM sets in stock still but he does not, so I've got some leg work to do.

[Theo]

Voice Armoniche will probably not deal with you.  They like big orders for multiple sets of reeds. 

 

For Carini just draw up your reeds spec and send them an email.  You can spend hours on their website and make little progress!  They are generally very helpful.

 

[malcolm clapp]

Slightly off topic, but I have to ask why you feel that you need to "upgrade" your Ceili reeds. Would you care to enlighten us of what you hope to achieve?

 

Of course, you may have some good reason for replacing the reeds; butchering from previous repairs, corrosion perhaps, or wishing to put the Ceili into a different tuning or key layout; all good reasons.

 

May I suggest that, before going to the trouble and expense, that you have a repairer check over the existing reeds, possibly adjust the voicing and tuning, maybe replace the flap valves and perhaps a few other adjustments to gain the optimum response and tone.

 

The original reeds would surely have been chosen by BB with some care and attention for their required purpose, and I would question whether the percentage improvement, real or perceived,  would justify the exercise.

 

Just curious.....

 

 

.

 

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

Beware of one thing, if you wanted to put some different/better reeds in: I have made a number of instruments using voici armoniche tam reeds and once asked them if their a Mano sets were the same size as their tam and was told they are not, there may also be a difference between dural and tam but I have no idea. I used to order about 20 sets at a time from this company and it was a very very slow process. The reeds are good though to be fair to the company. 

 

Maybe the thing to do might be to try and obtain the sizes of the reed plates from the manufacturer and if it's going to fit your instrument then order a single set through carini if they are stocking them. There will be quite some fine tuning to do on the new reeds as well so you will need a decent tuning set up. I'm not sure how Morse concertinas did that as I know their reeds are waxed in, maybe with reed scratchers? I am not sure. 

 

Best of luck with the project if you decide to go ahead, it's not that easy a task

[Don Taylor]

2 hours ago, Jake Middleton-Metcalfe said:

I'm not sure how Morse concertinas did that as I know their reeds are waxed in, maybe with reed scratchers

AFAICT, they used files on the outside facing reeds and reed scratchers on the inside.  I don't think that they ever removed the reeds for tuning.  I sent my Morse Beaumont in for its 5 year tune-up and I can see no sign that they removed the reeds when they did the (minimal) tuning I asked for.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Don Taylor

[Theo]

7 hours ago, Jake Middleton-Metcalfe said:

I'm not sure how Morse concertinas did that as I know their reeds are waxed in, maybe with reed scratchers? I am not sure. 

 

It's a standard process among accordion tuners to work on the reeds in situ.  I tune both accordion and concertina reeds.  For accordion reeds you need a one file for raising the pitch, a scratcher for lowering pitch, and a reed lifting tool to lift the underside reed to where you can work on it.  There is a bit more to it than that, and I recommend practicing on some old reeds of little value, otherwise you may end up damaging expensive new reeds.

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

16 hours ago, Theo said:

 

It's a standard process among accordion tuners to work on the reeds in situ.  I tune both accordion and concertina reeds.  For accordion reeds you need a one file for raising the pitch, a scratcher for lowering pitch, and a reed lifting tool to lift the underside reed to where you can work on it.  There is a bit more to it than that, and I recommend practicing on some old reeds of little value, otherwise you may end up damaging expensive new reeds.

 

That all makes perfect sense, im imagining sounding the reeds while they are mounted in the reed blocks by holding the block over a tuning jig with an air hole that the reed block is placed over to activate each individual reed to detect the pitch it sounds while outside the instrument?

 

 

I think Morse concertinas must have had a slightly different setup for tuning in their workshop as the action and reedpan were one glued together part and then the reeds were waxed on. Perhaps they had a tuning bellows which was set up in a different way and the whole action assembly could be attached and easily removed.