My Beef With Classical Music

[bellowbelle]

I enjoy playing classical songs on my concertina if they are ones I can sing -- they have lyrics, are not long and heavy-duty 'suites,' or whatever.

 

But, I have a 'folk approach' to classical. I just sing/play in my own relaxed, mostly-uncultured way, and I don't really make a distinction in my own mind between a classical song and any other song that I've worked on. And, as with all types, I pick and choose what I like -- I won't bother learning something just because it's a notable work. If I don't like it, I don't really care much about what it is or who wrote it. I don't prefer folk over classical -- in other words, I am not particularly trying to folk-i-cize classical songs.

 

I am not at all attracted to all the grand critique and commentary associated with the world of classical music. Musical reviews....ugh...(shudder). I don't even care if a performance was good or bad, either mine or someone else's, when it comes to that. I don't want to hear or read about it in great, picayune (to me) detail. (My vague apologies to any music critics or reviewers who may be reading....) It's not that I won't think critically, but....I dunno...(just shut-up, you critic-fools...!)

 

Anyway, it would be fun/great/interesting/nice to be part of an informal concertina and singing group that met for the purpose of enjoying classical songs, maybe with other material for some punctuation -- original works, folk songs, anything. So, maybe that will happen someday.

 

Around here, in the northeastern USA, there are bookstores and little hang-out spots ('coffeehouses' or whatever) that feature poets on particular nights and musical acts on other nights. Poetry as a main thing is kind of too 'talky' for me, but quiet little places that are kind to poets are usually kind to musicians who like classical music or sensitive-type songs. (Also, I've noticed that there's more of a mixed crowd at poetry-centered places -- not all just 'kids.') So, love-up to poets.

 

I may be checking out some of those places this summer, for something to do -- even if I am just going to listen, not join in, for the most part. (Maybe after a while I'd perform, if that worked out.) Of course, since I drink coffee and don't drink alcohol, I may find more to do at a coffeehouse!

[Mark Evans]

Wendy, you just made my day!

 

There is a critic in me darlin's native home land that is the king of all bottom-feeders (my little pet name for critics). He reviewed a concert my Lady D was involved in. Cat was so offended that she was wearing a gold beaded jacket with of all things black slacks, heaven forbid...standards after all! He was outraged and went on for the whole review about it. I would have loved to have had Bellowbelle's phrase "just shut-up, you critic-fools...!"

 

Sounds like a title for a good song.

[JimLucas]

There is a critic in me darlin's native home land that is the king of all bottom-feeders (my little pet name for critics).

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Please! Real bottom feeders are useful members of the ecology.

 

By the way, is it the paper or the writer who decides whether to call him/her a "reviewer" or a "critic"?

 

Hmm. I wonder if I could get a paper -- even better, a syndicate -- to hire me to review "critics"? E.g., "It seems he hasn't yet noticed that he's been transferred from the fashion desk to the music desk, much less why!"

 

But don't you and your "darlin'" fret over that. After all, the stuffed shirts were "scandalized" when Peter Serkin began performing in a silk shirt instead of a tux, but in the end, the audiences cared more about his music. She's in good company.

[Boney]

One last note of clarification (I'm trying to say a lot of things here, I dunno why).

 

Again, I think creating your own type of "classical session" would be fun. I just think the reason it doesn't happen more often is because of how far apart the forms of "classical" and "folk" music have drifted apart. They came from a different purpose, and attract people with a different mindset. And over the centuries they've only gotten further apart. Bach was a great improviser, and much baroque music didn't have exact instrumentation written down. And I think it probably wasn't played in such a precise (even stilted) style that has become almost inseperable from the form of classical music today.

 

So I think that creating something that even approaches a "session" atmosphere is fighting centuries of deep-ingrained habits. Not that just reading through charts in a pretty much straight classical way wouldn't be fun or useful (add beer and laughs to taste), especially among amateur musicians. It'll probably fare much better than most attempts by classical groups to play "folk" or "pop" music (as has been noted by others in this thread...)

[JimLucas]

So I think that creating something that even approaches a "session" atmosphere is fighting centuries of deep-ingrained habits.

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So was giving women the vote.

... I say, "Let's fight!"

[Mark Evans]

Boney, just across the bay from you lurks the best period performance Baroque Orchestra on planet earth, bar none me hearties! Philharmonia Baroque!!!!! Improvisation, fresh, alive and completely nuts. Their concert mistress Elizabeth Bloominstock is one of finest baroque violinists alive. She dances with that fiddle in her hand and music erupts to match any energy in music anywhere (in my never to be humble opinion).

 

It was once my privilige to work with them and was the highlight of my rather undistinguished career (if one could even call it that). Open, honest and warm...you'd think you were at the perfect session. When I added ornamentation in my recits and at certain places in the airs during the next measure they would quote me. I stood there grinnin' like a mule eatin' briars.

 

Check um' out.

[David Barnert]

And I think it probably wasn't played in such a precise (even stilted) style that has become almost inseperable from the form of classical music today.

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Oh, come on!

 

Just because you don't "get it" (which you've already demonstrated with your title to this thread) doesn't mean it's flawed. If many people enjoy it and you think it's stilted, who's more likely correct?

 

Sorry for the tone, but I just had to get that off my chest.

 

By the way, anyone interested in hearing a very successful "folky" take on classical music should seek out the recordings of The Cambridge Buskers. Two guys with an accordion and a recorder (sometimes flute, pennywhistle or ocarina) that made many albums of their arrangements of the standard classical repertoire.

[Boney]

And I think it probably wasn't played in such a precise (even stilted) style that has become almost inseperable from the form of classical music today.

Oh, come on!

 

Just because you don't "get it" (which you've already demonstrated with your title to this thread) doesn't mean it's flawed. If many people enjoy it and you think it's stilted, who's more likely correct?

 

Er, I didn't title this thread, that was someone else. Even so, classical music isn't perfect, and doesn't have to be for people to enjoy it.

 

I think it's important that people understand and think about the subtleties of music. The differences between "classical" and "traditional" is a bit of a hot button. But I think it's been useful for me to understand BOTH to really explore the differences between the two, and in that way to understand music (and myself) more fully in general.

 

Now, I did NOT say classical music was stilted. What I meant was that is a common mistake that happens with players and performances in the classical world. The style itself is more rhymically rigid, and it's easy to fall into the trap of becoming stilted. I could spend hours talking about exceptions or the subtleties of rhythmic variations in classical music, but I'm trying to communicate a main point: the differences in learning, technique, presentation, and expectations is really huge. There are some things that are more highly developed in classical music, that's for sure! But there are also some things that traditional music does very well that classical music doesn't. Otherwise, they'd sound the same, right?

 

Each has their strengths and weaknesses, is all I'm trying to say. They come from a different place, and have different kinds of qualities have gotten emphasized and developed over the centuries.

 

I'm sure I don't "get" all kinds of music, but I really enjoy certain classical performances, and certain traditional performances, and don't like others. Yes, I do think the way classical music is often performed nowadays is flawed. I'm not saying classical music should be "jazzed up" or played in a more rough-and-tumble, traditional-type way. But having grown up being taught in a "classical" way, I know there are many things I wish I was told about MUCH earlier. It's easy to hear the influence of the academic approach to music instruction in formal musical groups. And I hear it all too often.

 

That being said, I've had probably the most exhilirating musical experience of my life playing in just such a "formal," classically-trained group. Draw your own conclusions.

[Howard Mitchell]

Interesting discussion.

Here's a few other comment to throw in.

 

I've played for English dancing for many years. Now this means traditional dances like the Morpeth Rant, Nottingham Swing etc. with tunes that would not be out of place at a folk session.

 

But it also means playing for "period" country dances from about 1600 to 1800 (This is known as ECD or even MECD - modern english country dance - in the US to distinguish it from period re-enactment.)

 

Over the last few years some callers of ECD have added to the repertoire and sometimes have used early and classical tunes. So we often get to play Susato, Arbeau, Handel, Mozart and even recently a piece of Gilbert and Sullivan.

 

We've taken two approaches to this - one in which we arrange on the fly, much as we might do with traditional tunes. The other where we have fixed arrangements, much more in the classical mode. Last year we even put together a baroque quartet for a specific dance.

 

I have to say that the audience seem to enjoy the "arrange on the fly" model. But then they're dancers not a seated audience and they perhaps enjoy the changing dynamics.

 

 

Another point - last week I saw a giant pile of hand written music manuscripts produced in the first half of the 20th century. All of them concertina arrangements, either for duet or english concertina. The content was mostly light classical with an occasional polka or waltz. This gives an interesting insight into the repertoire of concertina players in this period.

 

 

Howard Mitchell

[geoffwright]

It doesn't have to be orchestral - no one seems to have mentioned the word "band". There are still concertina bands playing in England and also courses/weekends where the budding classical player can join in music making with others on a larger scale e.g. Swaledale in 2 weeks time.

Great fun.

[David Barnert]

Oh, come on!

 

Just because you don't "get it" (which you've already demonstrated with your title to this thread) doesn't mean it's flawed. If many people enjoy it and you think it's stilted, who's more likely correct?

 

Er, I didn't title this thread, that was someone else...

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My apologies , to both you and the actual originator. In the light of morning, there is much to regret in last night's post.

[Jeff Stallard]

Er, I didn't title this thread, that was someone else...

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My apologies , to both you and the actual originator. In the light of morning, there is much to regret in last night's post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am the originator. Don't sweat it man; I'll just hack your account and post lots of juicy stuff using your name.

[Jeff Stallard]

But, I have a 'folk approach' to classical.  I just sing/play in my own relaxed, mostly-uncultured way, and I don't really make a distinction in my own mind between a classical song and any other song that I've worked on.

 

Yeah, I'm the same way. To me, the differences between classical and folk are purely social in origin. Kind of like politics, where you need that distinction to help define your own group. Yes, I know tons of you will disagree with that, and probably write paragraphs upon paragraphs telling me why I'm wrong, but save your breath (fingers?), because I've heard it all before.

 

I've played for English dancing for many years. ... Over the last few years some callers of ECD have added to the repertoire and sometimes have used early and classical tunes. So we often get to play Susato, Arbeau, Handel, Mozart and even recently a piece of Gilbert and Sullivan.

 

The more I learn about ECD, the more I think it's my calling. I recently got the Kitchen Musician book of country dances, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear a very nice mix of classical and folk, even within the same song. Take, for example, College Hornpipe (the Popeye theme). The song is "folk" and yet there are some very "classical" patterns in there.

 

the pleasure I get from playing simple Bach and Mozart arrangements for two people is huge.It would sound like crap to other people but so what. I've collected a lot of music for two players,mainly easy violin.

 

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I like to be able to feel the music, and if it's too complicated, like a lot of classical, it loses its soul (not to mention it's harder to play). The best songs only have a few core patterns. I have lots of easy violin music as well.

[David Barnert]

I am the originator.  Don't sweat it man; I'll just hack your account and post lots of juicy stuff using your name. 

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Thank you, Jeff. Next time I post something regrettable, we can all assume it was you.

[Jeff Stallard]

I am the originator.  Don't sweat it man; I'll just hack your account and post lots of juicy stuff using your name. 

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Thank you, Jeff. Next time I post something regrettable, we can all assume it was you.

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Ouch! Nice comeback!

[Rod Thompson]

Er, I didn't title this thread, that was someone else...

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What's wrong with the title - "Beef with Classical Music"?

Sounds great - perhaps a bottle of red wine to go with it?

Edited May 12, 2005 by Rod Thompson