lilli Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 looking for a duet concertina. Till now I am playing a german one and would like to study a good old duet. I am looking forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david robertson Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 looking for a duet concertina. Till now I am playing a german one and would like to study a good old duet. I am looking forward. Crane or Maccann system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeman Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 HI lilli - I have a Wheatstone , metal-ended, brass reeded, 55-button Crane duet in mint condition. £2000. I have more details and photos if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I guess I've heard Geoff playing it - appeared to be a very nice, sweet-sounding instrument (which I would have acquired from him if I'd had the spare money and wouldn't strictly stick to the English anyways...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 How does a crane duet rate in terms of simplicity of transition from an English Concertina? Brass reeds sound like a very sensible option for something that is likely to be used for accompaniment. Also seems a lot cheaper than an equivalent TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 How does a crane duet rate in terms of simplicity of transition from an English Concertina? Brass reeds sound like a very sensible option for something that is likely to be used for accompaniment. Also seems a lot cheaper than an equivalent TT. Since I've never played any Duet concertina I can only point at the "historical" fact of the Crane being somewhat derivated from the English: it was meant to be an English with altered allocation of the notes... (you'll find the triads in the diagonals). The patent from 1896 is speaking of "Simplifying the Key Arrangement of an English Concertina"... I guess if I would consider a Duet myself it would very likely be a Crane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Soooo tempting. Must resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) How does a crane duet rate in terms of simplicity of transition from an English Concertina? Possibly slightly more similar conceptually than Maccann, Hayden, or Jeffries, but 1. not by much, 2. probably not in the long run, and 3. not for everyone. The conceptual similarity between the Crane and the English (and not shared by other duets) is that both have all accidentals and only accidentals in the two outer columns of each hand, and both have all naturals and only naturals in the inner columns (2 columns for the English, 3 for the Crane). But that's it. All duets have the complete scale in each of the two hands, while the English splits/alternates scales between the hands. In the long run, the sorts of arrangements you would play on the Crane would be quite different from the English, while there would likely be more similarity between one duet and another. Just as different individuals react differently to the same taste or smell, so may one individual find one or another system easier to adapt to -- or even more "similar" -- than another system, while another individual may find the oppposite. So far there seems to be no way of predicting in advance which will be which. My own preferred duet for many years has been the Crane, though I'm nowhere near as good on any of them as on the English. But I don't claim that the Crane is the "best" duet for everyone. lakeman's offered instrument sounds like an excellent choice. The 55-button model gives an excellent range in both hands, a full octave of overlap between the hands, and is fully chromatic throughout. As far as I kinow, Wheatstone never had a "cheap" line of duets, so the brass reeds would have been something special (special order?), not a reduced-quality, cost-saving measure. Frankly, if I had the money, I would be attempting to buy this instrument for myself. Then to answer a question not (yet) asked in this thread, I would say that if you find yourself comfortable with a duet of any sort, then transitioning to another sort -- if you were to decide to do that -- shouldn't be too difficult. Most aspects of technique should be the same, and the main thing to learn would be to get your fingers familiar with the new shapes of scales and chords. Also seems a lot cheaper than an equivalent TT. Yes. In general, vintage Crane and Maccann duets tend to be less expensive than comparable Englishes. (Jeffries duets are another story, and there are no "vintage" Haydens.) The old "supply and demand" equation. Edited to correct gratuitous renumbering of my list by this (expletive!) "editor". Edited April 17, 2015 by JimLucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Since I've never played any Duet concertina I can only point at the "historical" fact of the Crane being somewhat derivated from the English: it was meant to be an English with altered allocation of the notes... (you'll find the triads in the diagonals). The patent from 1896 is speaking of "Simplifying the Key Arrangement of an English Concertina". Interesting that Mr. Butterworth claims to have derived his design from that of Wheatstone (The "English" keyboard). I can see how that might have taken place, though I would argue that the differences are significant enough that it's ridiculous to claim either to be a variant of the other, much less a simplification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I wouldn't dream of hijacking somebody's topic, but I may come back to this one if Lilli doesn't pursue it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoover Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) The patent from 1896 is speaking of "Simplifying the Key Arrangement of an English Concertina"... So, why is it not called a "Butterworth Duet"? Gary Edited April 17, 2015 by gcoover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 The patent from 1896 is speaking of "Simplifying the Key Arrangement of an English Concertina"... So, why is it not called a "Butterworth Duet"? I presume because it was first marketed by Crane & Sons (though produced for them by Lachenal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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