How Much Practice?

[Anglo-Irishman]

Friends,

I recently picked up this quote somewhere:

 

"The serious amateur musician practises a piece until he can play it right; the professional musician practises a piece until he can't play it wrong."

 

Discuss!

 

Cheers,

John

[RAc]

.

Edited March 4, 2016 by RAc

[Mikefule]

The more you practise a tune, the more nuances you find in it. The best demonstration of this I know is pretty much anything played by Martin Hayes on fiddle. He does more than 2 times through each tune, plays at a steady pace, and gives every note it's proper value. No two passes through the tune are identical, and there is plenty of "dynamics". Where is the merit in learning 100 tunes by making them all sound the same?

 

The more you practise, the better you will play and the more rewarding you will find it.

[Wolf Molkentin]

Where is the merit in learning 100 tunes by making them all sound the same?

 

Good point Mike!

[Alex West]

There are a few other "amateur versus professional" saws in the lexicon, including

 

The amateur does things for his enjoyment, the professional for the enjoyment of others

 

and

 

The amateur cannot conceal how difficult a task is, the professional makes it seem easy

 

All of these are useful in their own context, but as an amateur musician (not always serious) I've found enjoyment in sessions whether the tune was played "right" (whatever that means) or wrong.

 

Having just been to a couple of Celtic Connections gigs in Glasgow, personally I hate going to performances where the artiste is so concerned to make the gig seem polished and professional that they've taken all of the joy out of it and managed to loook thoroughly disinterested in each other and the audience. If that's what practise does to you, stop it!

 

Alex West

[Wolf Molkentin]

Alex, I widely agree - however, from my own experience (basically from singing in a choir where the singing tended to get over-enthusiastic all the time) any performer (even an "amateur") will have to limit his own excitement in order to really excite the audience, and you can't be just your own listener without this little difference which might to some extent be effectively kept in mind for practising and playing for one's own - and thereby even greater - enjoyment.

 

Best wishes - Wolf

[Bill N]

Played a gig last weekend with 4 friends. We were meant to be musical wallpaper, but people started dancing, and we ramped it up. We (well, mostly I) made lots of "mistakes", but i haven't had more fun playing in a long time, and the audience was positively joyous. Reminded me that perfected performance isn't always the final word.

[Roger Hare]

The more you practise a tune, the more nuances you find in it.

 

I find the more I practice a tune (even a simple one), the more, different, ways I find to play it. This is helping me

become a 'better' player, if only because I have to cross from C-row to G-row to play the tune. That sort of exercise

is making the fingers nimbler, which must be good?

 

...but people started dancing, and we ramped it up...and the audience was positively joyous. Reminded me that perfected performance isn't always the final word.

 

I'm choosing to interpret this as meaning 'spontenaity is good'? I saw the Chieftains at a free open-air concert

in Brittany a couple of years ago, and they loosened up a bit as the session progressed - they were clearly having a

blast! So were the 5000 or so people watching - no room for dancing unfortunately - except on-stage where the

support acts did just that...

 

Whatever, I practice and I try and work out different ways of playing the same thing on my 2-row Anglo. It's certainly

helping. Result - I am now a 'very, very bad' player, as opposed to 'execrable', I hope to continue to improve...

 

Keep practicing...

 

Roger

[Rod]

There is certainly no lack of evidence to suggest that many potential audiences appear to treat music as little more than wallpaper !

[RAc]

^{just to bring in a different line of thought - the original quote reads "until." Although this sort of implies "quantity," it can also be read as "quality." In other words - playing the same piece a bazillion times doesn't necessarily make it better. Maybe the pro also has techniques to practice the piece right with less effort, no?}

Edited January 19, 2015 by Ruediger R. Asche

[Wolf Molkentin]

^{just to bring in a different line of thought - the original quote reads "until." Although this sort of implies "quantity," it can also be read as "quality." In other words - playing the same piece a bazillion times doesn't necessarily make it better. Maybe the pro also has techniques to practice the piece right with less effort, no?}

Rüdiger, of course what maks the "pro" musician is not just about more time for practising, at least not at the point of his "professionality" - but however he will have to practise in order to play a tune really good (in terms of music), and the results should be different from what we all can try to achieve.

 

Besides, there are the "genii", and OTOH the control freaks, and maybe anything in between... (taste will be a huge factor too...!).

 

Best wishes - Wolf

[RAc]

 

^{just to bring in a different line of thought - the original quote reads "until." Although this sort of implies "quantity," it can also be read as "quality." In other words - playing the same piece a bazillion times doesn't necessarily make it better. Maybe the pro also has techniques to practice the piece right with less effort, no?}

Rüdiger, of course what maks the "pro" musician is not just about more time for practising, at least not at the point of his "professionality" - but however he will have to practise in order to play a tune really good (in terms of music), and the results should be different from what we all can try to achieve.

 

Besides, there are the "genii", and OTOH the control freaks, and maybe anything in between... (taste will be a huge factor too...!).

 

Best wishes - Wolf

 

well, first of all. Happy Birthday to you, Wolf! Shouldn't you be doing somthing else than sitting in front of your computer today? ;-)

 

I may have not made my point clear (for which I apologize) - I wasn't merely referring to the (maybe trivial) issue that the word "right" refers not only to "error free" but also to musically relevant terms (such as perfect articulation relative to the intended sound). I was also thinking about the converse - practising endlessly will not automatically or inevitably produce professional or compatible results; it may even be counter productive and may cement an error into the rendition (for example if the player is not aware that he or she does something wrong, eg with respect to rhythm and keeps practicing the mistake over and over again. Geeesh, I'm just asking for a "look who's talking" type of response here, amn't I? ).

 

I guess it's these kinds of things (in effect the subtle interpretations of terms like "practice" and "right") that John wished to tease us reflecting about?

[StuartEstell]

So much depends on your goal - and therefore on the idiom in which you're working.

 

If you want to be able to give a note-perfect performance of a challenging classical piece then a different approach to practice is required than if you want to, say, improvise around a song accompaniment. Knowing what you want is sometimes harder than working towards it.

[Wolf Molkentin]

So much depends on your goal - and therefore on the idiom in which you're working.

 

If you want to be able to give a note-perfect performance of a challenging classical piece then a different approach to practice is required than if you want to, say, improvise around a song accompaniment. Knowing what you want is sometimes harder than working towards it.

 

However, the good news is that - sometimes at least - the instrument tells you what you want (to do with it)...

[Wolf Molkentin]

Geeesh, I'm just asking for a "look who's talking" type of response here, amn't I?

I wouldn't go so far...

 

Seriously, I agree, there's a certain awareness (and maybe self-criticism) needed for practising fruitfully ...

 

well, first of all. Happy Birthday to you, Wolf! Shouldn't you be doing somthing else than sitting in front of your computer today? ;-)

Thank you for that, Rüdiger! I guess you're right, but too much work to be done in the office... - however, I'm glad to be able to to it...