Walter Dale?

[wes williams]

I've just got my first 78rpm of Walter Dale on Homochord D1057. Searching back through the forums I note that a Walter Dale track was issued on English International . But my 'Walter Dale' 78rpm is a duet, and isn't anybody else but Alexander Prince!!

 

The two tracks on this 78 are 'Administration March' and 'Honest Toil'. I'm very familiar with the first track, since its the first Prince 78rpm I ever got, and was the only one I had for decades. The instrument is definitely a duet, and with my headband magnifier I can make out that the matrix numbers are the same for both tracks as the Alexander Prince tracks on Zonophone, the Admin March track even also having the early X49146 single sided catalogue number for this track, which was never released on single sided.

 

I've already found two Alexander Prince aliases - "George King" on early 'The Twin' issues, and "George Hardy" on Pathe re-issues of Stirling cylinders. Is Walter Dale another?

 

Comments folks?

 

Edit: I've just read Stuart Eydmann's writings on Walter Dale, in which he mentions both tracks above, but notes that they were on the Sterno label with numbers unknown, which was part of the same parent company as Homochord. So Walter Dale was a real person, but now we need to be very careful about believing if all the tracks attributed to him were actually by him.

Edited September 11, 2012 by wes williams

[JimLucas]

So Walter Dale was a real person, but now we need to be very careful about believing if all the tracks attributed to him were actually by him.

Or that all recordings attributed to Alexander Prince were actually by him?

 

A less likely alternative, I suppose, but why would Prince hide his fame under aliases?

[Geoff Wooff]

So Walter Dale was a real person, but now we need to be very careful about believing if all the tracks attributed to him were actually by him.

Or that all recordings attributed to Alexander Prince were actually by him?

 

A less likely alternative, I suppose, but why would Prince hide his fame under aliases?

 

 

 

 

It could be a way of selling more records ( change the titles or author's name and sell the same thing twice or thrice)... This type of thing was not unknown but using another artistes name.. perhaps they were great friends and Walter Dale was old or ill and A.P. sold a few records for the benefit of W.D.

 

Lots of posibilities (and crackpot theories) come to mind.

[Rod]

I've just got my first 78rpm of Walter Dale on Homochord D1057. Searching back through the forums I note that a Walter Dale track was issued on English International . But my 'Walter Dale' 78rpm is a duet, and isn't anybody else but Alexander Prince!!

 

The two tracks on this 78 are 'Administration March' and 'Honest Toil'. I'm very familiar with the first track, since its the first Prince 78rpm I ever got, and was the only one I had for decades. The instrument is definitely a duet, and with my headband magnifier I can make out that the matrix numbers are the same for both tracks as the Alexander Prince tracks on Zonophone, the Admin March track even also having the early X49146 single sided catalogue number for this track, which was never released on single sided.

 

I've already found two Alexander Prince aliases - "George King" on early 'The Twin' issues, and "George Hardy" on Pathe re-issues of Stirling cylinders. Is Walter Dale another?

 

Comments folks?

 

Edit: I've just read Stuart Eydmann's writings on Walter Dale, in which he mentions both tracks above, but notes that they were on the Sterno label with numbers unknown, which was part of the same parent company as Homochord. So Walter Dale was a real person, but now we need to be very careful about believing if all the tracks attributed to him were actually by him.

 

There is some interesting information and music from Walter(Wattie)Dale and his son Tommy Dale on the website www.raretunes. I made a note on my files, way back in 2008, that I admired and enjoyed their style.

[Irene S.]

Seems unlikely that ALL Alexander Prince's recordings would be Walter Dale since he was very much real. Stuart Eydmann's PhD dissertation from the 1990's makes a deal of reference to him, and to interviews with people who had known and worked with him ... see page 24 onwards of the following chapter http://www.concertin...mes-chap-07.pdf

 

I remember reading this while doing various bits of research regarding Maccann, Prince et al three years or so ago, since the Music Hall chapter featured Dale as well. (An interesting read by the way).

 

Edit: Drat... hadn't seen that Wes had edited his own first post!

Edited September 12, 2012 by Irene S

[Dowright]

On Walter Dale, see the attachment, which is an excerpt from Appendix II of my article, "Dutch Daly: Comedy and Concertinas on the Variety Stage," Papers of the International Concertina Association (PICA), 4 (2007), 1-26; archived in the PICA section of the ICA website at www.concertina.org.

The appendix also includes profiles of a number of other variety-stage concertinists (including Alexander Prince) in Great Britain and the US.

More theatre and circus performers on concertina are profiled in my "Miniature and Semi-miniature Concertinas," forthcoming in PICA 2012.

Walter John Dale.doc

Edited September 12, 2012 by Dowright

[wes williams]

Or that all recordings attributed to Alexander Prince were actually by him?

A less likely alternative, I suppose, but why would Prince hide his fame under aliases?

In the two previous examples of Prince under aliases there's no reason to suppose that the use of any alias was Prince's doing. The Twin label early issues have many artists appearing under aliases. The issue of Sterling cylinder recordings as disks by Pathe drew this response from Prince himself:

"Phono Trader & Recorder" (December 1908):

I wish to deny through the columns of your paper an advertisement appearing in the December issue stating that I have made records for Pathé Frères. The only disk records made by me are published by the Gramophone and Zonophone Companies.

The Pathe disk example follows Geoff's suggestion above - its exactly the same recordings as previously issued under Prince's real name, but re-issued under the name 'George Hardy'.

Edited September 12, 2012 by wes williams

[JimLucas]

Or that all recordings attributed to Alexander Prince were actually by him?

A less likely alternative, I suppose, but why would Prince hide his fame under aliases?

In the two previous examples of Prince under aliases there's no reason to suppose that the use of any alias was Prince's doing. The Twin label early issues have many artists appearing under aliases. The issue of Sterling cylinder recordings as disks by Pathe drew this response from Prince himself:

"Phono Trader & Recorder" (December 1908):

I wish to deny through the columns of your paper an advertisement appearing in the December issue stating that I have made records for Pathé Frères. The only disk records made by me are published by the Gramophone and Zonophone Companies.

The Pathe disk example follows Geoff's suggestion above - its exactly the same recordings as previously issued under Prince's real name, but re-issued under the name 'George Hardy'.

Sounds like piracy, long before the internet and far from the Caribbean.

 

But it does still leave the puzzle of by what process and for what purpose the exact same performance was attributed to two different known performers.