recommendations needed regarding Crabb concertina

[drehleier241]

Hello, I am a newbie and hope someone can give me good advise.

 

First: I mainly play hurdy-gurdy and guitar, but some 20 years ago I had a Suttner Anglo that I sold when I had not enough time for all instruments.

Nowadays I have more time and I saw an intriguing offer in the shop-window of a antiques dealer here in Germany. Unfortunately the shop was closed. The concertina displayed was in it's case, so I could not see everything, but the end plate looked clean and the leather bellow edges looked good. The case looked very old, but in good shape (leather?). I noted the phone number of the shop and talked to the shop owner today. I asked about the details but sure he could not give any information. But he said the instrement "plays well", the bellows were okay and made of leather. Anyway – I have no idea if the offered concertina is Anglo or English system, but

the shop owner says it is an instrument made by "H. Crabb, 158 Liverpool Rd, London" I did some recherche on the net and it seems that Crabb instruments must be extraordinay good and a reasonable investment even if one has to restore it. Would you agree? What would be a fair price? And what would be your advise?

 

Thank you for every help you could give me.

 

Best regards,

Ulrich

[Geoff Wooff]

You should go back to that shop and see what more information you can find. For instance, if you take the serial number which should be on the left hand side and then you can contact Geoffrey Crabb, a member of this website, he will be able to tell you all about that concertina.. when it was made etc.

 

Good luck,

Geoff.

[drehleier241]

You should go back to that shop and see what more information you can find. For instance, if you take the serial number which should be on the left hand side and then you can contact Geoffrey Crabb, a member of this website, he will be able to tell you all about that concertina.. when it was made etc.

 

Good luck,

Geoff.

 

 

Thank you Geoff,

the thing is: the shop is about 150 km to go so it is not so easy to get the serial number. I think even if it is not such an *old* model it mgiht be worth buying it if the bellows are okay and the reeds are in tune. So probably I have to go there and check this - and simply buy it. The price requested is VERY reasonable.

Maybe I get some more of the valuable hints / suggestions from the forum.

 

Regards,

Ulrich

[Geoff Wooff]

Well, Ulrich,

if you can get the serial number of the concertina from the shop owner, by telephone, then at least you can find out what it is you will be traveling to see and then you can get an idea ,from this site , of the value.

 

Happy hunting,

Geoff.

[JimLucas]

The price requested is VERY reasonable.

That suggests to me that you're being foolishly unnecessarily tentative.

 

At the price you imply, the question is not whether you would be paying less than its value in the wider market, but how much less. From your description, it sounds like the "how much" is still significantly more than the cost (cash and time) of a trip to see it and potentially buy it. What are you waiting for?

 

Okay, there is a possibility that the concertina is in fact a disaster and not worth the price, but from your description of what you saw and your conversation with the seller, that seems unlikely. Still, if you're too risk averse to take that chance, please PM or email me the location of the seller. Though at the moment I'm at least 1300 km away, it sounds to me as if it's worth the trip.

[drehleier241]

The price requested is VERY reasonable.

That suggests to me that you're being foolishly unnecessarily tentative.

 

At the price you imply, the question is not whether you would be paying less than its value in the wider market, but how much less. From your description, it sounds like the "how much" is still significantly more than the cost (cash and time) of a trip to see it and potentially buy it. What are you waiting for?

 

Okay, there is a possibility that the concertina is in fact a disaster and not worth the price, but from your description of what you saw and your conversation with the seller, that seems unlikely. Still, if you're too risk averse to take that chance, please PM or email me the location of the seller. Though at the moment I'm at least 1300 km away, it sounds to me as if it's worth the trip.

 

Hello Jim,

 

thank you for your reply regarding the Crabb concertina. I decided that I will go tomorrow to the shop. As I wrote, some 20 years ago I owned a Suttner anglo and so I think I am able to judge if the bellows are okay and if the buttons act smoothly. I can also see if the tuning is okay, taking my Korg OT-120 tuner. Probably a knock-out argument for me might be if the tuning is 445 Hz (so the Crabb might then be an older model) - and therefor I cannot use it in my band. But I guess even then I should buy it and even if it needs some professional care it might be worth buying it. But as far as I remember at least the end plates did not look not very worn. What do you think? The more recherche I do on the net the more I think a Crabb is a sought after instrument and I should try to lay my hands on it (literally).

Thank you for any further advice.

Best regards,

Ulrich

[drehleier241]

Hello everybody who helped me with good advice. I just bought the Crabb. It is a 57+1 button duet concertina and it is, as far as I can judge, in good shape. Some tones are quiet and some slightly out of tune, but I was told by some generous forum members that this should not be a major topic. The bellow is absolutely tight and the buttons are mechanically okay - so now I have to figure out how to play. Because I once had an anglo and was on first sight in the shop a little bit disappointed, because I thought it would be an english system, but by now I figured out it isd a duet and the possibilities with a duet concertina even more covers what I would like to do with the instrument - now the only thing is (besides getting rid of the small problems) to learn how to play. Oh yes... the price was really VERY reasonable.

I wanted to post some pics, but I could not figure out how to do so.

 

Best regards,

Ulrich

[SteveS]

Hello everybody who helped me with good advice. I just bought the Crabb. It is a 57+1 button duet concertina and it is, as far as I can judge, in good shape. Some tones are quiet and some slightly out of tune, but I was told by some generous forum members that this should not be a major topic. The bellow is absolutely tight and the buttons are mechanically okay - so now I have to figure out how to play. Because I once had an anglo and was on first sight in the shop a little bit disappointed, because I thought it would be an english system, but by now I figured out it isd a duet and the possibilities with a duet concertina even more covers what I would like to do with the instrument - now the only thing is (besides getting rid of the small problems) to learn how to play. Oh yes... the price was really VERY reasonable.

I wanted to post some pics, but I could not figure out how to do so.

 

Best regards,

Ulrich

Ulrich

 

Congratulations on your new concertina.

What type of duet is it? Can you maybe post some pictures?

 

Steve

Edited May 7, 2012 by SteveS

[drehleier241]

Hello everybody who helped me with good advice. I just bought the Crabb. It is a 57+1 button duet concertina and it is, as far as I can judge, in good shape. Some tones are quiet and some slightly out of tune, but I was told by some generous forum members that this should not be a major topic. The bellow is absolutely tight and the buttons are mechanically okay - so now I have to figure out how to play. Because I once had an anglo and was on first sight in the shop a little bit disappointed, because I thought it would be an english system, but by now I figured out it isd a duet and the possibilities with a duet concertina even more covers what I would like to do with the instrument - now the only thing is (besides getting rid of the small problems) to learn how to play. Oh yes... the price was really VERY reasonable.

I wanted to post some pics, but I could not figure out how to do so.

 

Best regards,

Ulrich

Ulrich

 

Congratulations on your new concertina.

What type of duet is it? Can you maybe post some pictures?

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

good question: I have no idea, first I thought it would be McCann layout, but only the left side is mostly like the McCann - but the right side is different. I am still trying to find out what model it is. As I wrote, I have some pics, but since I am new to the forum I am a little bit dumb and could not figure out how to post pictures.

 

Send me your e-mail and I'll get you the pics.

 

Best regards and thanks for the congrats,

Ulrich

[JimLucas]

I decided that I will go tomorrow to the shop. As I wrote, some 20 years ago I owned a Suttner anglo and so I think I am able to judge if the bellows are okay and if the buttons act smoothly. I can also see if the tuning is okay, taking my Korg OT-120 tuner. Probably a knock-out argument for me might be if the tuning is 445 Hz (so the Crabb might then be an older model) - and therefor I cannot use it in my band. But I guess even then I should buy it and even if it needs some professional care it might be worth buying it. But as far as I remember at least the end plates did not look not very worn. What do you think? The more recherche I do on the net the more I think a Crabb is a sought after instrument and I should try to lay my hands on it (literally).

Sorry for my too-late response, Ulrich, since you've now already bought the concertina, but I doubt you'll be disappointed.

 

I suppose I should have been clearer about the reasoning behind my advice. Any Crabb instrument in good condition, from any era, can be expected to be among the top tier and should be worth buying at any reasonable price, but especially at a "VERY reasonable" price. Because even if you decided you didn't want to keep it for your own use, you could sell it at a profit, and that profit could help you get a concertina you would want to keep.

 

And retuning to modern concert pitch -- if needed -- is something commonly done. It wouldn't be cheap, but neither should it be prohibitively expensive.

 

I just bought the Crabb. It is a 57+1 button duet concertina....

What type of duet is it? Can you maybe post some pictures?

good question: I have no idea, first I thought it would be McCann layout, but only the left side is mostly like the McCann - but the right side is different. I am still trying to find out what model it is.

Now I'm very curious, as I'm interested in the various kinds of duets, including (maybe especially) unusual ones. The photos might be helpful, though a detailed layout of the note locations on each end would be even better.

 

But another help would be the serial number, since Geoff Crabb can almost certainly use that to find details in the Crabb records.

 

As I wrote, I have some pics, but since I am new to the forum I am a little bit dumb and could not figure out how to post pictures.

 

Send me your e-mail and I'll get you the pics.

I would also like the photos. And if you send them to me, I could even help you with posting them. I'm sending you my email address.

[shelly0312]

Oh please, we are all dying to see pictures here a c.net. We all love hearing stories of "good finds" still to be had at antique stores that are not familiar with instruments. woooo-woooo. Congradulations! Welcome back to Concertina World. Lots of duet players here that will welcome you with open arms and help with all your questions! Michelle

[RAc]

well, since Ulrich trusted me with his pictures and didn't explicitly object with me putting them up... lucky b******, you! :-)

 

No, seriously, I've seen people put more money on the table for an off the shelf 20 button Lachenal anglo in way worse shape. The least justice you, Ulrich, you can do to this beauty cutie is to learn to play it as well as we all hope we would be able to play our respective instruments... congratulations for this attic find!!

[SteveS]

well, since Ulrich trusted me with his pictures and didn't explicitly object with me putting them up... lucky b******, you! :-)

 

No, seriously, I've seen people put more money on the table for an off the shelf 20 button Lachenal anglo in way worse shape. The least justice you, Ulrich, you can do to this beauty cutie is to learn to play it as well as we all hope we would be able to play our respective instruments... congratulations for this attic find!!

Mmmm - where is the envy button??.....

 

Seriously tho, lovely looking 'tina - and well done Ulrich!

[Reed Bellows]

What a lovely Crane!

[drehleier241]

Hi Shelley, Jim, Steve, Ruediger - thanx for all of your very kind commends and help. Especially Ruediger and Nils who gave me very well advice.

Yes, really, I am very very happy. I remember last thursday I had just basic concertina knowledge back from the mid- and end-eighties when I had my Suttner Anglo. In the following years, getting more and more job driven and occupied, I thought it would be a shame to just have the concertina on the shelf not playing it and decided I could better hand it to someone else who could make a better use of it and play it. Ever since it was gone I felt a little bit "uncomplete". I was and still am playing besides guitar the hurdy-gurdy and a little bit low whistle, but during the nineties it became nearly impossible for me to devote myslef to my instruments and stopped nearly all musical activities. Luckily, 3 years ago, I had the chance to drop out of the job, and I was allowed to get back into music. I play in a band (if you want, check www.gambrinus-folk.de - with a link to sound samples in DJshop), and over the past years I always felt attracted whe hearing a concertina. Should I go for a Suttner again? I asked myself more than one time. Recently I checked his website and figured out: 4.5 years to wait ... ahum. I play Weichselbaumer Alto gurdies and for my new hurdy-gurdy model "Viola" I had *just* two years to wait. Well. Last tuesday it happened that I took my godson and his just married wife (both living in Pittsburgh) on a trip to the Rhine and Mosella rivers. After a long walk to a beautiful Mosella viewpoint we went to have some lunch in Zell. Strolling through the streets we came along an Antiques store. I was never interested in Antiques and more or less accidentally looked into the display window. I nearly oversaw - the concertina. At that moment there was not much time. My company wanted to leave and so I das to hurry up. Unfortunately it was a holyday and the Antiques shop was closed. Luckily there was a phone number indicated on a card board: "Interested? Phone number....." I noted the contact and went home, forgot about it until last Thurday. I remembered that I had seen just the top of the instrument which was stored in his case and therefore showed only some buttons, a piece of the ends and bellows. But what I had seen was that the instrument was in - at least at first sight - a good shape. I thought: well - you probably cannot afford it, but what the heck - I'll give it a try. I phoned the antiques dealer and asked for the concertina. He could barely give any good information. "Is it an Anglo?" I asked him. "No, it comes from England," says he, "but it plays well, hehe..." Then I asked for the brand and he said: "Hmm - I have to get my magnifier!" Shortlly afterwards he came back with the information: "It is made by H. Crabb, Liverpool RD, England". I asked for the price, and as he told me what he requested I thought: "Well, for THAT money I could probably buy a very cheap Hohner beginner's model and this Hohner instrument then would be a new one - but barely more than a children's toy." But also I thought I should not trust my ears when that guy told me the requested price and decided not to talk too much and not to alert him to do what I did instantly afterwards: I started to investigate on the internet and found out that restored Crabb concertinas were listed at Ebay for about 3.000 British Pounds. I thought: "Wait a minute - that can't be true... SO much money for an OLD instrument?" I remembered a friend of mine from North Germany who plays Concertina and phoned him. He said: "Well - Crabbs are the Bentleys under the concertinas." He recommended: "For the price requested you should RUN and get it. No dicussions or negotiotions. Even if it is in really worse shape: get it!" So this morning I anxiously phoned the dealer again. "Yes, he said, you can see my shop today and the concertina is still on sale." So I drove the 150 km back to Zell. Finally I arrived in the shop and on the first moment I was a bit disappointed. I saw: BIG number of buttons, 57 pkus 1 I konw in the meantime. "Aha" thought I - "and English system". Not, what I had hoped to get, an Anglo system. I tried the instrument and figured that some tones are not in tune (I had brought my KORG OT-120 tuner) - some were dead (at least in one direction). But overall the instrument was a beauty: the bellows very dense and the leather a bit dusty but black and not worn, the end plates shiny and without major scratches, same the wooden frame. But I could not figure what the heck the system was. I knew: English system goes from left to right building up a scale. I tried, but no luck. I bought it anyway. I started dealing with the seller, argumenting that the instrument had dead tones and some were out of tune. Finally he agreed to deduct 10 Euro "rebate" from the requested price. So I took the instrument silently, brought it to my car silently, sat down in the car silently, but then I yelled out loudly. "YESSSSSSS!!!!! Got it!" Scared two old pedestrian ladies passing my car at that very moment nearly to death with my scream of luck. It took the nearly 2 hour drive back to get that broad grin out of my face. Back home I figured that my new old Crabb is a duet concertina which comes even more close to what I want: playing 2 melodies or a melodie with accord vamps (I really hope I will be able to learn it) - even if it is a bit more complicated. But after one hour investigating and checking out the system it seems very clever to me having that zigzag way to follow a scale with demitones on the far left or right.

Well, you see - I am a lucky guy today, and a happy one as well. Tomorrow I will make a chart of the tone layout of my concertina. I would be very grateful for any hint how to learn duet concertina.

Oh, yes, I got an estimate by Nils who said that he thinks my concertina (which has serial no. 8981) was made probably in 1924. I asked Geoff Crabb for his evaluation.

 

That's it for the moment, folks. Have a good night. In the next days I will take some better photos than the ones I've sent to Ruediger (who kindly loaded them up).

 

Best regards,

Ulrich

[JimLucas]

well, since Ulrich trusted me with his pictures and didn't explicitly object with me putting them up... lucky b******, you! :-)

The button layout looks very much like that on my Jeffries-label Crane duet, except that it appears to be in mirror image. Is it possible that the images have been reversed left-to-right?

 

Aside from the apparent mirroring, the main differences from my own Crane duet are

• The ends of mine are 6-sided, rather than 8-sided.
  
• Where this instrument has 30 buttons (and no thumb button) in the one hand, that end of mine has 31 buttons in the main array (with an "extra" B below middle C) and also an air button for the thumb.
  
• The thumb button on the end with 27 other buttons isn't an air button on mine, but sounds a note. Which is it on this instrument?
  

By the way, it's known that some Jeffries-label concertinas were actually made by Crabb. I've wondered whether that could be the case with my own Crane, since the Crabbs were especially known for making (and playing) Crane duets.

[JimLucas]

I started to investigate on the internet and found out that restored Crabb concertinas were listed at Ebay for about 3.000 British Pounds.

For reasons having nothing to do with the quality of the workmanship, vintage anglos are generally more expensive than equivalent Englishes, which are more expensive than duets. So £3000 would probably be too high a valuation for what you got. But from the sound of things, you still got both a wonderful bargain and a wonderful instrument! (And I suspect the problems with individual notes will not be difficult or expensive to fix.)

 

I hope you enjoy learning to play it, and look forward to hearing the results.

[drehleier241]

Folks,

 

I try to attach a word document showing the layout of my Crabb Crane duet concertina.

 

Best regards,

Ulrich

Crab 58 button layout.rtf

Edited May 8, 2012 by drehleier241