Accordion with concertina reeds?

[PhilEdwards]

My new(-to-me) Lachenal EC is a thing of great beauty, notably in its timbre. I've been doing a bit of home recording over the past year, and I quite often use drones; initially I played them on an old toy reed organ, before moving up to a melodica. The other day I tried putting together a drone track based on a I-V two-finger concertina chord, and the results were extraordinary (if you like drones). The richness of the sound knocked me out - it could almost be a cello. The contrast with the relatively flat and uniform - and buzzy - sound of the melodica is chalk and cheese.

 

But this got me thinking: if, some time in the future - quite a long time in the future, my wife is only just getting used to the concertina... If, some time in the future, I wanted to play an instrument with a piano-type keyboard - perhaps so as to play piano or

pieces - but I didn't want to lose the richness of the concertina's tone, what options would I have? Are there any accordions that sound that good?

[Dirge]

My new(-to-me) Lachenal EC is a thing of great beauty, notably in its timbre. I've been doing a bit of home recording over the past year, and I quite often use drones; initially I played them on an old toy reed organ, before moving up to a melodica. The other day I tried putting together a drone track based on a I-V two-finger concertina chord, and the results were extraordinary (if you like drones). The richness of the sound knocked me out - it could almost be a cello. The contrast with the relatively flat and uniform - and buzzy - sound of the melodica is chalk and cheese.

 

But this got me thinking: if, some time in the future - quite a long time in the future, my wife is only just getting used to the concertina... If, some time in the future, I wanted to play an instrument with a piano-type keyboard - perhaps so as to play piano or

pieces - but I didn't want to lose the richness of the concertina's tone, what options would I have? Are there any accordions that sound that good?

Simple mon vieux.

 

Chuck that EC away right now and get learning the Maccan duet. Then you can play harpsichord music on that. As: and there's a bit of Handel on the site already, erm here we are.

 

What you suggest would be much bigger and you still have to learn a new keyboard to play the LH anyway. Why reinvent the wheel?

[PhilEdwards]

 

 

Chuck that EC away right now and get learning the Maccan duet. Then you can play harpsichord music on that. As: and there's a bit of Handel on the site already, erm here we are.

 

What you suggest would be much bigger and you still have to learn a new keyboard to play the LH anyway. Why reinvent the wheel?

 

Actually I'm more comfortable with the piano keyboard than I am with the EC, let alone the Maccann layout. But it's an interesting idea. Maybe later!

[Brian McGee]

You could always get a cajun accordion.

[Daniel Hersh]

My new(-to-me) Lachenal EC is a thing of great beauty, notably in its timbre. I've been doing a bit of home recording over the past year, and I quite often use drones; initially I played them on an old toy reed organ, before moving up to a melodica. The other day I tried putting together a drone track based on a I-V two-finger concertina chord, and the results were extraordinary (if you like drones). The richness of the sound knocked me out - it could almost be a cello. The contrast with the relatively flat and uniform - and buzzy - sound of the melodica is chalk and cheese.

 

But this got me thinking: if, some time in the future - quite a long time in the future, my wife is only just getting used to the concertina... If, some time in the future, I wanted to play an instrument with a piano-type keyboard - perhaps so as to play piano or

pieces - but I didn't want to lose the richness of the concertina's tone, what options would I have? Are there any accordions that sound that good?

I would say yes. An accordion-reeded instrument won't sound the same as a concertina-reeded one, but it can still have a very pleasing tone. I've got an older Excelsior piano accordion that has a great sound. You might want to pay a visit to an accordion dealer and try some instruments out. Since piano accordions nearly always have multiple reeds for each note, try experimenting with different settings on the treble side switches to hear how each one sounds with different combinations of reeds.

 

That having been said, I spend much more time these days playing duet concertina than I do playing piano accordion...but that's a different topic.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Daniel Hersh

[JimLucas]

An accordion-reeded instrument won't sound the same as a concertina-reeded one, but it can still have a very pleasing tone.

"Pleasing" is in the ear of the beholder, and tastes differ.

Bertram Levy and some others have expressed a preference for the sound of the Stagi (or other "accordion-reeded" concertinas) over vintage Wheatstones and Lachenals, while for many others the reverse is true. (Myself, I like them both, but consider them to be different instruments... soundwise.)

 

Having said that, I would also point out that an accordion built with "concertina" reeds will certainly sound different from a standard accordion, but will also (almost certainly) not sound exactly like a vintage concertina. It's hard to mistake one of the modern accordion-reeded concertinas for an accordion, even if you can't see either and both are only playing melody with a single set of reeds.

 

The reeds are just one factor... as was recently demonstrated to me by Robert Pich. He swapped one end -- not including the reed pan --from an older wooden-ended Wheatstone English onto a newer metal-ended one (the chambers were a close enough match), and the sound from the wooden end was much more like that in its original instrument than like the sound of the still-metal end.

[Ransom]

I understand that the construction of harmonium reeds is more similar to the concertina than that of accordions.

 

Harmoniums come in sizes from quite small to rather large, and prominently feature piano-style keyboards.

[david fabre]

Instead of looking for such instrument in the future, you may also try in the past...Indeed some old models of accordeons ( or melodeons ) , in particular those made in france and known elsewhere as " flutinas" had reeds more similar to concertina ones than to modern acordeon ones. Most often in brass but sometimes in steel. I would not be surprised if a model with this kind of reeds and a piano keyboard has existed. Maybe the specialists of old instruments can help.

Edited May 1, 2012 by david fabre

[PhilEdwards]

Instead of looking for such instrument in the future, you may also try in the past...Indeed some old models of accordeons ( or melodeons ) , in particular those made in france and known elsewhere as " flutinas" had reeds more similar to concertina ones than to modern acordeon ones. Most often in brass but sometimes in steel. I would not be surprised if a model with this kind of reeds and a piano keyboard has existed. Maybe the specialists of old instruments can help.

 

Indeed, Wikipedia (no less!) says that the flutina has a concertina-like sound. As for what you get if you put a piano keyboard on a flutina, that would be a harmoniflute, as played by folkie harmoniumist John Kelly. Interesting stuff!

[ceemonster]

i too love the sound of stagis, provided the reeds are well-fitted and well-adjusted enough that all pistons are firing and they don't have that anemic, treacly sound some of them give off. i have actually been toying with the idea of asking stagi/brunner if they would give me a hand reed upgrade and maybe some bone buttons on a hayden like they offer on the deluxe 48 ECs and the deluxe 56 ECs... one could perhaps have one of the u.s. concertina wizards work a little sorcery on the action mechanism as well.....i love that sound. and don't forget, somebody on this site did a blind taste-test a few years back for un-indoctrinated listeners as to which concertina they liked better using an "authentic" vintage concertina-reeded instrument and an accordion-reeded one, and the preference went almost unanimously to the accordion-reeded one. my love of the concertina-reed sound is based strictly on emotional conditioning.

 

you might also check out the single-reed accordion voice. that is perhaps what was meant by the poster who mentioned accordions? sometimes on PAs the switch for the single dry middle reed voice is called the "clarinet" voice....and other times, it is called....the "concertina" voice. i prefer a slightly wet tremolo accordion voice but find myself playing irish tunes on my cba using the dry single-voice "concertina" switch just because it is bigger and louder than button boxes or concertinas and i don't want the two-reed setting to alienate other players. and that single voice is really great. not exactly like a concertina but closer than i would have believed...

 

you could find something like this single-voiced lightweight Pigini Peter Pan PA (a "converter" model with free basses convertible by a switch to one-voice PA stradella basses) and have a blast with it....

http://www.akkordeoncentrum.de/english/shop/000662,details_Pigini_Peter_Pan_Piano.html

Edited May 2, 2012 by ceemonster

[ceemonster]

here is a young maestro with a single-voice cba version of the pigini peter pan plus goldfish accompanist....oops, i see the black cba in the goldfish clips is a pigini B2 set on the single voice. the white box below is the peter pan, and it sounds brighter and more concertina-ish to me anyway..

 

pigini b2:

 

 

the PPP:

Edited May 2, 2012 by ceemonster

[Daniel Hersh]

you might also check out the single-reed accordion voice. that is perhaps what was meant by the poster who mentioned accordions? sometimes on PAs the switch for the single dry middle reed voice is called the "clarinet" voice....and other times, it is called....the "concertina" voice. i prefer a slightly wet tremolo accordion voice but find myself playing irish tunes on my cba using the dry single-voice "concertina" switch just because it is bigger and louder than button boxes or concertinas and i don't want the two-reed setting to alienate other players. and that single voice is really great. not exactly like a concertina but closer than i would have believed...

Yeah, that's basically what I meant. I didn't say it in so many words because tastes vary and the original poster might personally prefer a multi-reed sound, perhaps even with tremolo. But I myself prefer the single voice sound if the accordion is good enough to get a reasonably full sound that way.

[ceemonster]

[i myself prefer the single voice sound if the accordion is good enough to get a reasonably full sound that way.] i think that is very much the trend in taste as to accordion voices, including for many irish players. i still love the old-school sound of some (but not too much) tremolo, but the unisonorics tend to be bigger, with bigger lungs, so the single voice can be a courtesy to other players, and i must say, it sounds really nice, like you said, given good, full-voiced reeds...here is a young irish player on a single-voice castagnari lilly bisonoric....(b/c)...it's not the "old" sound, but i think it sounds good, and there is indeed kind of a concertina feel to it....i guess that brings us back to accordion-reeded concertinas, which can give you tone this good or even better, for some who find the casti lilly kinda squeaky. but to loop round again, i guess if the OP wants a piano configuration, if it were me, i'd go single-reeded PA.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2012 by ceemonster

[Daniel Hersh]

[i myself prefer the single voice sound if the accordion is good enough to get a reasonably full sound that way.] i think that is very much the trend in taste as to accordion voices, including for many irish players. i still love the old-school sound of some (but not too much) tremolo, but the unisonorics tend to be bigger, with bigger lungs, so the single voice can be a courtesy to other players, and i must say, it sounds really nice, like you said, given good, full-voiced reeds...here is a young irish player on a single-voice castagnari lilly bisonoric....(b/c)...it's not the "old" sound, but i think it sounds good, and there is indeed kind of a concertina feel to it....i guess that brings us back to accordion-reeded concertinas, which can give you tone this good or even better, for some who find the casti lilly kinda squeaky. but to loop round again, i guess if the OP wants a piano configuration, if it were me, i'd go single-reeded PA.

Here's another example of that sound, played by the great Dermot Byrne:

.

 

 

 

[Lester Bailey]

There is always the Castagnari Mignon