Frozen Endbolts

[hielandman]

Hellol. Several months ago I purchase a concertina on Ebay which had a label on it which said "Metzler", but from the photos I new to be a Lachenal, a 20 button Anglo. The seller said in his ad that since he did not own a screwdriver of a suffieceintly small size, he was unable to determine whether the reeds were brass or steel, as he had no means of removing the ends. When it came it was definately a Lachenal, as I thought, and seemed to be in pretty good condition, excepting the straps, and the valves seem to need replaceing, but everything else seems to be there. But when I attempted to remove the endbolts, well................I discovered the real reason why this person didn't know what the reeds were made of, the end bolts are frozen in place! I managed to extract two, but all the others would not turn, and I ended up breakin off their heads, which I thought would allow me to remove the ends, but there I was wrong, the end bolts seem to be fused with the wood they pass through. I tried prying up with knives, tried adding a few drops of water, and even added WD-40, to try to get the bolts free of the wood. Does anyone know what may have caused this, and how to cure it? I managed to pull one of the threaded brass insert out of its place by trying to force the end up! I don't want to make it any worse, it at all possible. I would appreciate any thoughts on the matter, thanks, Hielandman

[David Barnert]

This kind of question sounds like it's right up Don Nochols's alley. He's not on concertina.net, but you should be able to attract his attention on the newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox. He's got a web site at http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html and his e-mail address (posted on his site, so I can't see any harm in posting it here) is dnichols@d-and-d.com.

Edited August 4, 2004 by David Barnert

[Paul Read]

I had one like this a while back. The bolts had corroded and hence expanded, anchoring them selves into the wood. In that case, I just had to persevere. The end plate broke away from the frame but I was able to successfully reconstruct it afterwards. Once the end is of, you can use WD-40 to release the bolt from the plate but great care is needed. You'll also need new bolts.

 

Sorry, I don't have any better fix.

 

Good luck.

[hielandman]

Hey, thanks for the ideas, I will try both!

[hielandman]

Hi Folks, I tried to contact Don Nichols, but he sent me an email saying that he would prefer I send him one that was not html. I have no clue as to what he is talking about, nor do I know what people mean when they mention Urls. I am a metal fabricator by trade(and now a teacher of that), and a leather worker and musician the rest of the time. I know how to do ebay, and email, and concertina.net on the internet, and that is about it. can anybody clue me in to what he is talking about? Or send him my first post here, if you don't have the dreaded html disease? thanks

[JimLucas]

I tried to contact Don Nichols, but he sent me an email saying that he would prefer I send him one that was not html.

First about the end bolts: I've had to do that a couple of times, and my solution was

... 1) Use a very small drill (you may need to go to a jeweler's supply to get one small enough) to drill down through the shaft of the screw.

... 2) When you've drilled through to the point where the end meets the bellows frame, a little pressure will break off the drilled part from the rest.

... 3) With all the bolts you couldn't unscrew broken off, you can lift off the end and extract what's left from the end, since that part isn't threaded. If it's stuck from corrosion, push it through with a rod or even use a drill the diameter of the bolt shaft.

... 4) Carefully lift the leather covering the inset nuts, remove the screws holding them in place, and firmly holding both the nut and the projecting tip of the bolt, twist the bolt free. (If it's so corroded that it can't be freed from the nut, you may need a new nut.)

 

Now about HTML: Many (most?) Microsoft-based email programs these days assume that everybody wants there emails to look like web pages, with color, fonts, and other junk. HTML is the "markup language" for programming web pages, with in-line formatting instructions and more. Someone whose email program doesn't do browser stuff will see the instructions, rather than the "pretty" formatting. And the worst of it is that there will be a lot of inserted "instructions" even if there is no pretty formatting.

 

What DoN sees when he gets an HTML email that says, "Hi. I have a seriuos question," is something like:

<HTML><BODY><font face="Arial" size="2"><P>Hi, I have a <I>serious </I>question.</P></font></body></HTML>

That's probably not exactly correct, but I think you get the idea and can maybe understand why he doesn't want to bother trying to dig out the little pieces which are what you're really trying to say.

 

What to do? There should be a setting in your mail program where you can turn off HTML when you're composing a message, either in general or for a specific message. Try searching in the Help for "HTML". If it only lets you turn off HTML globally (as a "default"), I recommend you do it. Unless you're deliberately putting colors, pictures, etc. into your messages it doesn't add anything functional, but it does make your messages bigger.

 

As for "URL", it stands for "Uniform Resource Location". It's a kind of address, telling your browser where to fetch things from on the internet.

 

I hope this helps.

[OLDNICKILBY]

I think that it is better to try seduction rather that rape,if you will pardon the expression.Try heating the ends of the screws witha soldering iron ,using a thin bladed knife can be effective as a wedge ,turning them the wrong way can sometimes break the rust seal.

If you want to try drilling them out you would be better to use a pillar drill but I would not like to try this as holding the drill in the centre of the screw would be just a bit tricky

You might find that some of the tools that we sell to modellers useful Email for a catalogue,sorry I hope I have not transgressed the C N code but Dave Elliot gives us a nice mention in his super book

Old Nic

[JimLucas]

I think that it is better to try seduction rather that rape,if you will pardon the expression.

One of my assumptions was that the screws are already in such a condition that they would need to be replaced even if extracted whole. A screw with the head broken off, e.g., or with corrosion that fills the threads or swells the shaft can't really be reused.

 

Try heating the ends of the screws witha soldering iron ,using a thin bladed knife can be effective as a wedge...

I wouldn't have thought of that. I would want to be careful of scorching the wood or finish, though.

 

I would not like to try this as holding the drill in the centre of the screw would be just a bit tricky.

It's important to be slow and careful. And my drill is about half the diameter of the bolt shaft.

[d.elliott]

I have used the heat trick and, as part of a battery of other semi-failed attempts, and it does help. The idea is to expand the steel - to force more clearance, and crack off the oxide if possible.

 

The wood scorching is not an issue as the wood around the hole is so de-natured that it needs a very careful reaming to re-create a diameter and clearance. If the wood has been too wet too long it may need plugging oversize or a washer fitting inder the new screw head, to stop the bolt pulling or just boring through.

 

As to drilling out, over that length would be very tricky, I have never attempted it. I think most people are reduced to blacksmithing techniques of: heat, pin-punch to shock and move, pressure and walking the little 'sod' out. Often, the more you pussy foot about the more damage you can create. Think it through then act!

 

I have just finished drilling the remnants of a corroded bolt out of a bellows frame brass plate nut on an instument that has been very damp.

 

Three bolts sheared just below the chamois leather, I dug all three plates and screw stubs out of the bellows frames ( significant powdery wood/ rust contamination to be cut our and new wood fitted on on three sites. Two I was able to oil and wind out, replacing them with re-claimed old screws of the same Lachenal thead. The last one sheared off again, flush with the plate face, I tried again to wind it out from the other side, same problem.

 

So:

 

1. file each end of the bolt flush with the plate.

2. centre pop the core of the bolt

3. Using a drill 2/3 core diameter drill through

4. open with a diamond rats tail file and wind/ break out the bolt remnant.

 

Easy? No. the first attempt ran off line and dug down a little way, between the brass plate and the steel of the bolt

 

I had to repeat the process from the other side, and solder up the dig in. Not that the solder has any thread strength, it just helps keep the bolt true in its hole, and that face will be set in facing away from the bellows frame chomois gasket.

 

It is never easy to drill a hard pin/ bolt out of a soft surrounding material. Steel from wood must be the worst of material combinations.

 

Dave