mthatcher61 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Help please. I have a 50's Wheatstone C/G Anglo. Whenever I am playing C/D and E/G on the G row RH (buttons 13 and 14 respectively), invariable one of the pads gets caught up on the adjacent pad. If the E/G is on top of the C/D then the E/G sounds on draw or push. If I push the D note then the C/D pad is now hung up on the E/G pad. Enclosed are pictures of the pads that keep crossing over each other. Is there an easy fix? I was tempted to bend the action levers just a little away from each other in the hopes that the pads would seat properly after activation instead of getting caught up on each other. I think it prudent to ask here first before I do anything other than a visual inspection. Does anyone have any suggestions, cautions, warnings notes? Thanks Mark Thatcher Edited January 25, 2012 by mthatcher61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Those pads do look to be very close together... perhaps a tiny bit of lever bending might create more space but I would also look at the button bushings in the end plate. Any slack in those bushings will allow sideways motion which will not help the situation. Another thing that could be done is to trim the pads at the sides where they are very close or touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Those pads do look to be very close together... perhaps a tiny bit of lever bending might create more space but I would also look at the button bushings in the end plate. Any slack in those bushings will allow sideways motion which will not help the situation. Another thing that could be done is to trim the pads at the sides where they are very close or touching. You've missed some evidence, Geoff. In the last picture you can see the parts of the circles on the padboard that are used to centre the pads; both pads are off position towards each other. They don't need trimming, they need moving away from each other. I would say bend the arms without straining against the pivots and get the pads to cover those circles completely. Bend a bit, drop the end back on and bang the buttons up and down a few times so they settle where they want to, then recheck. I wouldn't worry about bushings at this stage, indeed I'd make a modest wager this will fix it without further ado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Well Dirge, if you are going to be pedantic... when you look at the picture of the whole end you will notice that the keys are not evenly spaced which suggests that they have moved out of position after the end plate has been removed and ,of course the pictures where the pads are caught-up have been posed to show the problem.These later 'hook action' instruments can have a lot of sideways play at the lever pivots. I was just trying to cover all the points I could think of.. the other things that could cause a problem... however I do agree that the most obvious thing to do is tweek the lever arms . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Looking at those circles it appears that the pads could be a good bit larger than the originals, so if careful bending of levers does not completely solve the problem then carefully trimming of the pads may be required too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthatcher61 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thanks guys for the ideas. I am interested in all possibilities. Right now I am leaning towards bending the arms a little ways 'out' from each other, with an eye to covering up those outlines of circles on the pad board. But, before I do I feel I should really take a hard look at the bushings too. If they are indeed worn open, and there is slop where the key's go into the plate, pushing the keys away from each other, which would cause the pads to move towards each other, what would be the remedy for that? Fill in the key holes on the plate? The posts are tight, there is no slop in them. I assumed that if there was any slop where the keys went into the plate they would still be held into place by the metal grill that they poke out of. I appreciate any and all help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you bend the arms to remedy this problem beware of problem 2. Depending on the composition of the pads, they will often form a ring on the edge of the padhole and bulge down into the hole slightly. Over time the leather hardens into this position. If you bend the lever the bulge will no longer fit in the hole and the pad will leak. If the problem has developed recently I would look at slop in other places, the end bushings being the most obvious and already mentioned. A very necessary part of assessing this problem is to put the top back on the end along with the screws to get everything aligned, then lift out the screws making sure the top does not move, then carefully lift the top up making sure the buttons are not shifted. Now look at the centering of the pads. If any are not now centred it is valid to bend the levers, taking into account the issues mentioned in the first sentence of this reply, and whether the end bushings are in good condition. If the pads are large as Theo says a trim is also a good solution. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 To me, it appears that the two affected pads (and some others) are not attached centrally to the ends of the levers. Before attempting any lever bending etc. I suggest that those pads are re-attached centrally, the glue left to set and then the top replaced. Geoff Help please. I have a 50's Wheatstone C/G Anglo. Whenever I am playing C/D and E/G on the G row RH (buttons 13 and 14 respectively), invariable one of the pads gets caught up on the adjacent pad. If the E/G is on top of the C/D then the E/G sounds on draw or push. If I push the D note then the C/D pad is now hung up on the E/G pad. Enclosed are pictures of the pads that keep crossing over each other. Is there an easy fix? I was tempted to bend the action levers just a little away from each other in the hopes that the pads would seat properly after activation instead of getting caught up on each other. I think it prudent to ask here first before I do anything other than a visual inspection. Does anyone have any suggestions, cautions, warnings notes? Thanks Mark Thatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthatcher61 Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 The problem has been there since I got the concertina a couple of years ago. I have just avoided these keys but lately I have been hitting the Bertram Levy books pretty hard and its forced me to deal with the problem. I took the top off again and followed the advice as best I could. I checked and there didnt appear to be any slop in the bushings. Everything appeared tight or snug where it was supposed to be. I agree with what Geoffrey said and it looks like the pads could have been re-centered. I know that would have taken a while to order , then recieve the necessary piece/parts from David Leese. So I took the chance and bent the arm of just the most offensive pad (c/d the 13th button). I was careful and anchored the arm just fwd of the pivot post with a pair or pliers. I bent the end just a little bit away from the 14th pad and put the concertina back together again. I was worried that I might run into what Chris mentioned and the pad might not seal adequately again but I was in luck. It seems to have fixed the problem and there is no more leaky pad. Thank you everyone for your advice. I know that someday I should re-do the pads so they are more centered but right now its working, and I'm a firm believer in, 'if it works, dont fix it'! Thanks again Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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