G/D as second concertina

[Ottawa]

I'm playing fiddle tunes, including Irish, etc. on my C/G anglo and was hoping to be able to play these in a lower register. Would getting a G/D anglo be worth it? In particular, I believe G on the G/D would be an octave lower than on the C/G, but to make things simple for me- am I able to play in a lower octave of C or D as well? I'm not all to familiar with the G/D layout so need to ask. As far as it seems, playing in C would be in the same octave as on the C/G anglo, would it not? Perhaps this is why the C/G baritone was created. So could someone tell me the merits of having a G/D as well as a C/G and whether it is worth my while?

 

Thank in advance.

[Frank Edgley]

If you're intending to play it in sessions, you could do it with a G/D, but a lot of the fingerings, at least fo C and D tunes would be different. While it sounds like a good idea, playing in a lower octave in sessions doesn't work well. in my opinion. It is too low and the sound gets lost among the the other instruments, especially if it is a session with more than four or five musicians. It is good for solo playing, but it sounds like you are intending to play in the same key, just one octave lower. Why not try another key, like Bb/F (lovely sound) or A/E? You get the more mellow sound, but different. I know that Gearoid Ohhallmuinhain has both of these pitches, in addition to his C/G, for solo work. In fact, much of his first album was played on a Bb?F, I believe. Play it as a transposing instrument. For example, a G tune becomes a tune in F, so no new fingering is needed.

[Daniel Hersh]

I'm playing fiddle tunes, including Irish, etc. on my C/G anglo and was hoping to be able to play these in a lower register. Would getting a G/D anglo be worth it? In particular, I believe G on the G/D would be an octave lower than on the C/G, but to make things simple for me- am I able to play in a lower octave of C or D as well? I'm not all to familiar with the G/D layout so need to ask. As far as it seems, playing in C would be in the same octave as on the C/G anglo, would it not? Perhaps this is why the C/G baritone was created. So could someone tell me the merits of having a G/D as well as a C/G and whether it is worth my while?

A G/D is laid out like a C/G, but a fourth lower. The middle row of a G/D is in G (a fourth lower than the C row on a C/G) and the row closest to the palm of your hand is in D (a fourth lower than the G row on a C/G). Your plan could work for some tunes, especially the ones that don't go below middle C. Once you get lower than that, you'll find that some notes aren't there at the low end of a G/D - most glaringly, there's no low A.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that you'll be using a totally different fingering than you would use an octave higher on the C/G. You're bet bet to try this out to see how you like it would be to find a G/D that you could play around with. (If you can't find one belonging to a friendly nearby player, you might be able to rent a G/D Stagi from Button Box.) Another possible way to try it out would be to transpose some of your tunes a fifth down on your C/G . For example, take a tune that you normally play in G and play it in C a fifth lower - if you did that, you'd be using the same fingerings that you would use to play the tune an octave down from your usual pitch on a G/D.

 

 

 

[Steve_freereeder]

I'm playing fiddle tunes, including Irish, etc. on my C/G anglo and was hoping to be able to play these in a lower register. Would getting a G/D anglo be worth it? In particular, I believe G on the G/D would be an octave lower than on the C/G, but to make things simple for me- am I able to play in a lower octave of C or D as well? I'm not all to familiar with the G/D layout so need to ask. As far as it seems, playing in C would be in the same octave as on the C/G anglo, would it not? Perhaps this is why the C/G baritone was created. So could someone tell me the merits of having a G/D as well as a C/G and whether it is worth my while?

A G/D is laid out like a C/G, but a fourth lower. The middle row of a G/D is in G (a fourth lower than the C row on a C/G) and the row closest to the palm of your hand is in D (a fourth lower than the G row on a C/G). Your plan could work for some tunes, especially the ones that don't go below middle C. Once you get lower than that, you'll find that some notes aren't there at the low end of a G/D - most glaringly, there's no low A.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that you'll be using a totally different fingering than you would use an octave higher on the C/G. You're bet bet to try this out to see how you like it would be to find a G/D that you could play around with. (If you can't find one belonging to a friendly nearby player, you might be able to rent a G/D Stagi from Button Box.) Another possible way to try it out would be to transpose some of your tunes a fifth down on your C/G . For example, take a tune that you normally play in G and play it in C a fifth lower - if you did that, you'd be using the same fingerings that you would use to play the tune an octave down from your usual pitch on a G/D.

 

 

For my second instrument I am fortunate to have a Dipper anglo in G/D which I love and I am finding that I play it much more than my C/G. I mostly play English and Welsh music using the chordal/harmonic style, but it is well suited to melody-only Irish music too, despite what the die-hard traditionalists here might say. My G/D has a lovely mellow but strong sound and it holds its own in a session very well indeed. Playing in C on the G/D is not too difficult at all; it's the equivalent to playing in F on a C/G, and it sits nicely in the middle range of the concertina, with good chordal opportunities if that's what you want.

 

I'm not sure I understand Daniel's comment about the lack of a low A. If you mean the A just below middle C, there are two of them - one on the G row and one on the D row, and those ought to be standard on just about any G/D anglo. True, there is no A an octave lower still, but I have never missed its absence. At the other end, the range goes up to the F# an octave above the top of the treble stave, so plenty of notes available. I've yet to come across a traditional tune which lies outside the range of the instrument. I've attached the layout of my instrument for your information.

GD concertina layout.pdf

[Daniel Hersh]

I'm playing fiddle tunes, including Irish, etc. on my C/G anglo and was hoping to be able to play these in a lower register. Would

A G/D is laid out like a C/G, but a fourth lower. The middle row of a G/D is in G (a fourth lower than the C row on a C/G) and the row closest to the palm of your hand is in D (a fourth lower than the G row on a C/G). Your plan could work for some tunes, especially the ones that don't go below middle C. Once you get lower than that, you'll find that some notes aren't there at the low end of a G/D - most glaringly, there's no low A.

I'm not sure I understand Daniel's comment about the lack of a low A. If you mean the A just below middle C, there are two of them - one on the G row and one on the D row, and those ought to be standard on just about any G/D anglo. True, there is no A an octave lower still, but I have never missed its absence. At the other end, the range goes up to the F# an octave above the top of the treble stave, so plenty of notes available. I've yet to come across a traditional tune which lies outside the range of the instrument. I've attached the layout of my instrument for your information.

I mean the A an octave lower still. It's my impression that the original poster wants to play fiddle tunes an octave below their usual pitch. Someone who wants to do that will need that very low A to play tunes that use the A below middle C when played at their normal pitch.

[Dave Weinstein]

If you already play a C/G, and want to play at a lower pitch, you might want to consider getting a C/G baritone.

[Baxter]

I have an old two-row G/D as a second concertina. It's not really that good for playing in the low octave, partly for the reasons already stated and partly because the old reeds take a lot of air and aren't very responsive in that range. But I really enjoy playing it. It gives a whole different feel to tunes even in the normal octave, because the fingering and bellows patterns are different.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Baxter

[Jim Besser]

I'm playing fiddle tunes, including Irish, etc. on my C/G anglo and was hoping to be able to play these in a lower register. Would getting a G/D anglo be worth it? In particular, I believe G on the G/D would be an octave lower than on the C/G, but to make things simple for me- am I able to play in a lower octave of C or D as well? I'm not all to familiar with the G/D layout so need to ask. As far as it seems, playing in C would be in the same octave as on the C/G anglo, would it not? Perhaps this is why the C/G baritone was created. So could someone tell me the merits of having a G/D as well as a C/G and whether it is worth my while?

 

Thank in advance.

 

I love the G/D for playing fiddle tunes, and I love the lower register. In bands, it's my primary instrument.

 

But it is true that in sessions - and for much Morris music - the higher register of the C/G cuts through the noise a lot better.

 

It's also my opinion that while you can get away with a just-OK C/G, you need a really good G/D if you want to be heard. I've played G/D Lachenals that have lower notes that are slow to respond and that just don't produce enough sound to be useful in group situations or for Morris. And hybrid G/Ds sound more like accordions than hybrid C/Gs, in my experience.

 

OTOH, if you can lay hands on a Jeffries or a Dipper....

 

 

[hjcjones]

The main reason imo why players of English music like G/Ds is that it's possible to get the full chordal possibilities out of them when playing in those keys, which are the standard session keys. On a C/G ,playing in G on the right hand is too high, and an octave lower drops onto the left hand and limits the chords. I've never found playing in D with chords on a C/G to be very satisfactory. I love the brightness of the C/G but prefer the flexibility of the G/D when playing in "session keys". Like Steve, I find I'm playing the G/D more and more, and it's possibly taking over as my "first" concertina.

 

If you play melody without chords then a whole lot of other factors come into play, the main one being that you'll be using an entirely different fingering pattern from the C/G.

[Chris Timson]

Also worth adding that the G/D lends itself beautifully to playing in parallel octaves, which also works well for English music. It allows you to play the music of Scan Tester in Scan's style but in the key of G rather than C.

 

You might like to consider G/D as a first concertina

 

Chris

[Jim Besser]

Also worth adding that the G/D lends itself beautifully to playing in parallel octaves, which also works well for English music. It allows you to play the music of Scan Tester in Scan's style but in the key of G rather than C.

 

You might like to consider G/D as a first concertina

 

Chris

 

That's the way I've evolved. I rarely take out the C/G in band situations, except for the rare F or Dm tune. The G/D Jeffries is my primary instrument.

 

 

 

[LDT]

The main reason imo why players of English music like G/Ds is that it's possible to get the full chordal possibilities out of them when playing in those keys, which are the standard session keys. On a C/G ,playing in G on the right hand is too high, and an octave lower drops onto the left hand and limits the chords. I've never found playing in D with chords on a C/G to be very satisfactory. I love the brightness of the C/G but prefer the flexibility of the G/D when playing in "session keys". Like Steve, I find I'm playing the G/D more and more, and it's possibly taking over as my "first" concertina.

 

If you play melody without chords then a whole lot of other factors come into play, the main one being that you'll be using an entirely different fingering pattern from the C/G.

 

I'd really like to get a G/D concertina...I suspect it would supercede my C/G quite quickly. But its just finding one at the right price.

[michael sam wild]

Also worth adding that the G/D lends itself beautifully to playing in parallel octaves, which also works well for English music. It allows you to play the music of Scan Tester in Scan's style but in the key of G rather than C.

 

You might like to consider G/D as a first concertina

 

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris

I went to Will Duke's workshop on Scan Tester's tunes at Whitby the other week. I didn't get a chance to ask him about Scan's instruments. Did they have G/D when he was a youngster . I noticed Will has C/Gand G/D. But he mentioned Scan played in D and I wondered on which kind of Anglo (keys wise that is)

I've just bought the CDs and got a second hand copy of the Reg Hall book onScan so i hope to find some answers.

 

 

Will did say that Scan didn't bother too much with chords and used octaves or unison playing, Will said for volume for dancers or in pubs. So , as Dan Worral observed in his books, the older octave style , which would also be used by the older Irish players, may have been a lot more common than the melodeon style chord/melody system now used?

 

As ther newer Victorian tunes came in it would be hard for traditional Anglo players to adapt to some of the chords needed with the accidental notes, particularly if they grew up with 2 rows. In the absence of many rcordings of Anglo players we just don't know.

[Chris Timson]

G/D anglos have always been available but until recent times they were rare. Pretty sure Scan's concertinas are all C/Gs and that he mainly played in the key of C.

 

the older octave style , which would also be used by the older Irish players, may have been a lot more common than the melodeon style chord/melody system now used?

 

This is certainly possible. There are quite a few players around who play this way still (e.g. Harry Scurfield and Robin Madge of this forum) and I love the sound of it.

 

Chris