concertina and accordion

[ido]

Hi, I'm going to buy a concertina (Jackie) but I'm also maybe interested in an accordion and I was thinking about the difrences and similarities.

1.If I learn to play the concertina will it be easier for me to play a button accordion?

2.Are the sounds both instrements make simmular? and in what way?

3.Are the type of songs played on both instrements same type?

4.Is there a point getting them both? is supirior to another?

thanks for the help.

[david_boveri]

What type of music do you want to play?

[hjcjones]

Hi, I'm going to buy a concertina (Jackie) but I'm also maybe interested in an accordion and I was thinking about the difrences and similarities.

1.If I learn to play the concertina will it be easier for me to play a button accordion?

 

Firstly, that depends on what type of button accordion you mean - there are several different types and they are all very different to play. If you are referring to the two-row push-pull instrument also known variously as "melodeon", "Vienna accordion", "diatonic accordion", then the fingering has some similarities to the ANGLO concertina, which is also push-pull. However, I believe the Jackie is an ENGLISH system concertina, and I don't believe this has any similarities to any of the button accordion layouts

 

2.Are the sounds both instrements make simmular? and in what way?

 

They are both free-reed instruments. However a concertina usually has a single reed for each note. An accordion usually has two or more reeds, and usually these are tuned to slightly different frequencies which gives a characteristic accordion sound. So they do sound different - just how different will depend on how far apart (or "wet") the accordion reeds are tuned, but even where two reeds are tuned exactly in unison ("dry") they will still sound different from a single concertina reed. There are also differences in the construction of the two reed types, which also affects the sound. So, while they may sound more or less similar, in the way that stringed instruments may sound similar, each has its own characteristics which are immediately recognisable.

 

3.Are the type of songs played on both instrements same type?

 

That depends on the sort of music you want to play. There's probably no reason why you couldn't play most music on either, however bear in mind that while the English concertina is fully chromatic (ie has all the notes including sharps and flats) the sort of diatonic accordion I described above plays just the notes of the scale with only a few of the sharps and flats. However other types of button accordion are fully chromatic.

 

4.Is there a point getting them both? is supirior to another?

thanks for the help.

 

They are different instruments, different to play and with different characteristics. For that reason, there is a point to getting them both. I play both diatonic accordion (melodeon) and anglo concertina. Some songs or tunes are better suited to one rather than the other, others are equally suited to either. One is not superior to the other.

 

To advise on which is best for you we really need to know what type of music you wish to play.

[ido]

I'm wondering which is better for sea shantees or the music from Monkey Island(if you know the game).

there is

and there is

plus you can play clasic music on an accordion like here

or

it seams you can play on accordion anything you can play on a piano

[PeterT]

I'm wondering which is better for sea shantees

 

[Pedant warning]

 

Shanties were work songs, which were sung un-accompanied, therefore you don't need to worry about which instrument is better. Forebitters, the songs which sailors sang, during their leisure time, were known to have been sung to concertina accompaniment. Basically, the sailors would have used any instrument which was small, light, and portable (and probably low value).

 

[end of pedant warning]

 

As to which instrument is better for your other musical examples, I think that the videos, which you have selected, show what is possible on each instrument (with sufficient practice!). However, if you go down the Anglo concertina route, I would suggest the 30 key (button) instrument as a good starting point.

[hjcjones]

OK, the concertina clip you posted was of an Anglo concertina. In your original post you talked about getting a Jackie, which is an English concertina. They have completely different keyboard layouts and are quite different to play, and many players of one system are unable to get a tune out of the other. There is also a third system, the Duet, which in turn comes in several different keyboard layouts.

 

Anglos play two different notes for each button depending on whether you are squeezing or pulling the bellows (like a mouth-organ). The scale runs up the row of buttons with an alternate push-pull sequence. English concertinas play the same note in and out, and the scale alternates between the left and right hand. Duets also play the same note in and out, but the scale stays on the same hand and you can play tune on one side and accompaniment on the other.

 

Confused? It is confusing, if possible, try all the systems, speak to other players, and try to discover which feels most "right" for you.

 

All three systems are suitable for accompanying songs, but the Anglo is easier to play in certain keys, so it helps to get one in keys you can sing in if that's your main interest.

 

The accordions in the clips you posted are fully chromatic, and you are right that they can play anything you can play on a piano. I don't think either the English or Anglo systems would be of much help in learning to play them (except in the sense that learning any instrument gives some help when learning another). I don't know enough about either Duet concertina or button accordion fingerings to say whether there are any similarities.

[Guest HallelujahAl!]

Just get a accordion* - it'll do everything you ever need and more - plus it'll probably be a lot cheaper than a decent concertina. Of course, there's a significant weight difference in the two instruments. But an accordion can, because of it's coupler system which can take out or bring in extra reeds according the music you're playing, sound like a concertina. Unfortunately a concertina (even an accordion reeded model) can never sound like an accordion.

 

*that should set the dogs barking

Edited October 1, 2010 by HallelujahAl!

[Dirge]

The accordions in the clips you posted are fully chromatic, and you are right that they can play anything you can play on a piano. I don't think either the English or Anglo systems would be of much help in learning to play them (except in the sense that learning any instrument gives some help when learning another). I don't know enough about either Duet concertina or button accordion fingerings to say whether there are any similarities.

More pedantry...because the chords on an accordion are set you can't actually 'play anything you can play on a piano'. Piano music usually defines the whole piece precisely and needs individual bass notes, so 'playing it on accordion' often requires a willingness to butcher the original. I should know; this defect is one of the main reasons I came looking at concertinas in the first place. You can't play Bach on an accordion but I'm at least on with a chance of doing this with my big duet.

 

I do understand what you were driving at though, I think, Howard; as a one man band instrument for straight tune and bass stuff accordions take a lot of beating and you can have a good stab at most music, and make a nice full sound. They're dead easy to get to grips with too, at least the PA is, I never understood button accordions. Carrying a 120 bass about is not fun though. (another reason I looked at concertinas)

 

And Al, I think you're right, the questioner should look first at accordions given what we've been told; the only thing against is that they are a lot less portable (and they don't sound anything as nice to me but that's subjective)

[Bob Lusk]

A small 48 bass piano accordion will do everything you want. Newer accordions are lighter and if you buy from someone reputable more in tune and hold more air. Buying an old accordion if you are starting out is a false economy unless you really, really know that everything works and that it is tuned well. Cheap accordions on the internet will probably have problems unless it is a known reputable dealer. Good luck. There are so many types of free reed instruments - if you get the right one for you on the first try, consider yourself lucky.

[Guest HallelujahAl!]

More pedantry...because the chords on an accordion are set you can't actually 'play anything you can play on a piano

Free bass eliminates this as a problem - in fact Weltmeister make a really nice 'starter' freebass accordion that is very reasonably priced - about £550 from thomann

Though I still prefer my stradella bass which is far less 'set' than most non-accordionists realise.

[Guest HallelujahAl!]

You can't play Bach on an accordion

[Randy Stein]

This is my close friend and musical partner, Rodger French. He just arived back in the states from 4 years in Africa posted with his wife who works for the State Dept. He is here playing with the trio, Cowboy Envy. By the way...he has 2 CDs available and they are equally thrilling and amazing.

Never say you can't because someone always can and will:

 

rss

[Guest HallelujahAl!]

Never say you can't because someone always can and will:

AMEN!

 

Love Rodger's accordionising! Quite inspirational for a guy like me who can only dream of playing like that!

AL

[Dirge]

All right, starting a comment 'more pedantry' then arbitrarily deciding not to mention free bass accordions because they're not what's being discussed was pretty stupid and asking for caning...

 

The Bach shows off the defects in the accordion sound nicely...

 

The William Tell just makes me feel tired watching it. He must train to play that.

[Ransom]

The Bach shows off the defects in the accordion sound nicely...

 

Yeah, I didn't like that one either. I would have picked Dmitriev to show off the accordion's Bach potential. My favorite part is probably when he starts dancing on the chin switches around 4:19.

[Dirge]

The Bach shows off the defects in the accordion sound nicely...

 

Yeah, I didn't like that one either. I would have picked Dmitriev to show off the accordion's Bach potential. My favorite part is probably when he starts dancing on the chin switches around 4:19.

 

You're right, much better. What does that monstrous thing he's playing have? A complete piano keyboard on each end with independent stops?

 

Then I found this one,

which seems to suit the instrument perfectly. It's another superb bit of playing and really does bring to mind a buzzing insect. (I think I'll have to have a look at the music for this one. Don't hold your breath though.)

[Ransom]

You're right, much better. What does that monstrous thing he's playing have? A complete piano keyboard on each end with independent stops?

Two of the five rows under his right hand are redundant keys for alternate fingerings, so not quite as many notes as it may appear at first glance. Still plenty though, obviously.

 

 

Then I found this one,

which seems to suit the instrument perfectly. It's another superb bit of playing and really does bring to mind a buzzing insect. (I think I'll have to have a look at the music for this one. Don't hold your breath though.)

Good luck on that. =) I do seem to remember hearing that that piece was a hit on the English Concertina, back in the day.

[Leonard]

Good luck on that. =) I do seem to remember hearing that that piece was a hit on the English Concertina, back in the day.

 

By the Fayre Four Sisters. It's on Alan Day's "English International".

 

To me it's more a curiosity than music.