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Horse! A proposal


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Back in the day I was very active on, and maintained the FAQ for, the uk.music.folk Usenet newsgroup.

 

On umf a habit developed - part running joke, part safety valve - whereby if the dread topic 'What Is Folk Music' ever reared it's head, someone would head it off with a post of 'Horse!' or somesuch, in reference to Louis Armstrong's famous and much abused and misattributed quote,

 

"All music is folk music, I ain't never heard no horse sing a song."

 

And 9 times out of 10, at the cry of Horse!, all bets were off, daggers were sheathed, and everybody walked away and went about their business with honour intact and no harm done.

 

 

It strikes me that Cnet would benefit from a similar escape valve whenever the equally contentious and bile-producing topic re-emerges, the dread topic of Which concertina system is best?

 

I therefore propose the equivalent cry for Cnet:

 

Noel! Noel!

 

For reasons which are, I hope, reasonably obvious.

 

Thoughts? Alternative suggestions? Flames, accusations of being a cheeky whippersnapper, and Mudcat-style beatings for complete misreadings of a small part of what I've written, all welcome ...

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I play exclusively English. Now and then I have someone who wants to learn to play the concertina. The first thing I ask is' Do you read music'. If the answer is no I tell them I only work with students who read music and to recommend some books to start with and places on the internet. If the answer is yes then we discuss what type of music they wish to play and what type of concertina they have. The majority have an Anglo and want to learn how to play traditional Irish or contra dance music. If so I recommend a few places in town where they regularly gather and play or the DC Folk Society.

So for me the answer is not which system is better but what you gonna do with it once you learn to ride the darn thing.

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Back in the day I was very active on, and maintained the FAQ for, the uk.music.folk Usenet newsgroup.

 

On umf a habit developed - part running joke, part safety valve - whereby if the dread topic 'What Is Folk Music' ever reared it's head, someone would head it off with a post of 'Horse!' or somesuch, in reference to Louis Armstrong's famous and much abused and misattributed quote,

 

"All music is folk music, I ain't never heard no horse sing a song."

 

And 9 times out of 10, at the cry of Horse!, all bets were off, daggers were sheathed, and everybody walked away and went about their business with honour intact and no harm done.

 

 

It strikes me that Cnet would benefit from a similar escape valve whenever the equally contentious and bile-producing topic re-emerges, the dread topic of Which concertina system is best?

 

I therefore propose the equivalent cry for Cnet:

 

Noel! Noel!

 

For reasons which are, I hope, reasonably obvious.

 

Thoughts? Alternative suggestions? Flames, accusations of being a cheeky whippersnapper, and Mudcat-style beatings for complete misreadings of a small part of what I've written, all welcome ...

 

Why should any topic related to Concertinas be outlawed from a website that calls itself a Concertina Discussion Forum, and what the hell has 'Christmas! Christmas!' got to do with it ?

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A charming proposal! I think our situation has a few key differences:

 

1. When someone asks what folk music is, there's no reason for them to get an answer any different than the last person who asked. When our friend H most recently asked which system was right for him, he outlined a host of relevant circumstances. The same old conversation can be different every time! Though perhaps I'll change my tune after a few turns of the screw.

 

2. "Horse!" is intrinsically funnier than "Noel!"

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I therefore propose the equivalent cry for Cnet:

Noel! Noel!

 

For reasons which are, I hope, reasonably obvious.

I think that would be appropriate only in the month of December. ;)

 

In a more serious vein, I don't think your choice parallels the "folk music" quote (which I first heard attributed to Leadbelly). Instead, it has the flavor of taking sides. Noel Hill most definitely has been heard to play concertina.

 

Thoughts? Alternative suggestions? Flames, accusations of being a cheeky whippersnapper, and Mudcat-style beatings for complete misreadings of a small part of what I've written, all welcome ...

I don't think that sort of "solution" will be very useful here. I think the situation is quite different.

  • In spite of strongly differing opinions, we here are already pretty respectful in our discussions. But if we did get into heated discussions, it would as likely be over the need or usefulness of a "Horse!" equivalent, or over the breed of horse, as over the breed of concertina.
  • Our equivalent of the "What is folk music?" debate is "What is a concertina?" The "anglo or English" (who said "duet"?!) question is of a completely different class. It's generally from new members who are sincerely seeking advice on a potentially life-altering decision, something which can significantly affect both their musical and financial futures. It's not enough nor even appropriate that we agree to disagree and then stop there. If somebody were to shout "Noel!" (or "Leon!", or whatever), with all members then refraining from expressing opinions or giving advice, it would be a gross disservice to the questioner.

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I therefore propose the equivalent cry for Cnet:

Noel! Noel!

 

For reasons which are, I hope, reasonably obvious.

I think that would be appropriate only in the month of December. ;)

 

In a more serious vein, I don't think your choice parallels the "folk music" quote (which I first heard attributed to Leadbelly). Instead, it has the flavor of taking sides. Noel Hill most definitely has been heard to play concertina.

 

Thoughts? Alternative suggestions? Flames, accusations of being a cheeky whippersnapper, and Mudcat-style beatings for complete misreadings of a small part of what I've written, all welcome ...

I don't think that sort of "solution" will be very useful here. I think the situation is quite different.

  • In spite of strongly differing opinions, we here are already pretty respectful in our discussions. But if we did get into heated discussions, it would as likely be over the need or usefulness of a "Horse!" equivalent, or over the breed of horse, as over the breed of concertina.
  • Our equivalent of the "What is folk music?" debate is "What is a concertina?" The "anglo or English" (who said "duet"?!) question is of a completely different class. It's generally from new members who are sincerely seeking advice on a potentially life-altering decision, something which can significantly affect both their musical and financial futures. It's not enough nor even appropriate that we agree to disagree and then stop there. If somebody were to shout "Noel!" (or "Leon!", or whatever), with all members then refraining from expressing opinions or giving advice, it would be a gross disservice to the questioner.

 

If someone asks what folk music is than a 'horse' reply is probably appropriate. If someone asks which concertina is best

then your 'noel' suggestion is as good as any. But if someone asks which concertina could be used to play ITM and jazz

standards then he is probably hoping for a more informative and honest factual answer. Sometimes people don't read the

original question and the discussion get changed into something else.

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I agree the questions are not equivalent. "Which concertina is best" relates more to "Should I buy a sportscar, sedan or truck?" The answer to both these questions start with "what do you want to do with it?" and is a fact based request for information.

 

"What is folk music?" is more philosophical and I agree with Louis Armstrong.

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I'd rather let Paul and Ken moderate the posts and subjects. I really don't think my two cents in a thread that I don't like adds anything, especially after the umpteenth time I made my dislike known. If a topic comes up that's so dreadful, it would be easier to just ignore it and not respond.

 

Thanks

Leo

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Fair enough all - just a thought ... I agree that the two questions are not equivalent, and certainly wasn't intending any form of moderation or even censorship. I guess I was aiming more at an agreed marker that the conversation had achieved all it was going to in terms of addressing individual circumstances, and tipping over into a general bout of 'my system is better than yours'.

 

I think the best proposal was David's -

 

P**** a*******

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Fair enough all - just a thought ... I agree that the two questions are not equivalent, and certainly wasn't intending any form of moderation or even censorship. I guess I was aiming more at an agreed marker that the conversation had achieved all it was going to in terms of addressing individual circumstances, and tipping over into a general bout of 'my system is better than yours'.

 

I think the best proposal was David's -

 

P**** a*******

 

even though you bleeped it out, someone's mother is still going to look over their shoulder while they are here, and get in trouble for the cuss word! :P

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i think that a good response could be, "piano accordion," laugh.gif

Or just a humorous answer to the question?

 

Which concertina system is best? Not a melodeon (bagpipc, bohdran, etc).

 

Might be too esoteric blink.gif

You folks just don't seem to get it.

If you asked for advice on (e.g.) the best way to restore worn nickel plating on a metal-ended concertina and you received a response of "chrome attic", would you be amused? Or would you be insulted that someone was laughing at your request?

 

The "what kind is best" question is no different. The questioners are asking for assistance. The least we can do is direct them to prior threads dealing with the same question.

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Which type of Concertina is best?

 

a)The one being played by the puffy, bald-headed, traditional concertina expert

b)The one being played by the pretty girl at the other end of the bar.

c)The one that's been smashed to bits by the guitarist (or envious accordionist)

d)All of the above.

 

Sort of depends on your criteria for "best".

What might appear to you or me as a redundant or idiotic question, may well be a turning point in the future of a budding musician. I'd say it would be very arrogant of either of us to assume any right to discourage, alter, or manipulate the forum's response to this or any question. Not to mention highly unlikely to suceed anyway. Next thread please...

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i think that a good response could be, "piano accordion," laugh.gif

Or just a humorous answer to the question?

 

Which concertina system is best? Not a melodeon (bagpipc, bohdran, etc).

 

Might be too esoteric blink.gif

You folks just don't seem to get it.

If you asked for advice on (e.g.) the best way to restore worn nickel plating on a metal-ended concertina and you received a response of "chrome attic", would you be amused? Or would you be insulted that someone was laughing at your request?

 

The "what kind is best" question is no different. The questioners are asking for assistance. The least we can do is direct them to prior threads dealing with the same question.

 

i agree.

 

Which type of Concertina is best?

 

a)The one being played by the puffy, bald-headed, traditional concertina expert

b)The one being played by the pretty girl at the other end of the bar.

c)The one that's been smashed to bits by the guitarist (or envious accordionist)

d)All of the above.

 

Sort of depends on your criteria for "best".

What might appear to you or me as a redundant or idiotic question, may well be a turning point in the future of a budding musician. I'd say it would be very arrogant of either of us to assume any right to discourage, alter, or manipulate the forum's response to this or any question. Not to mention highly unlikely to suceed anyway. Next thread please...

 

are you "horsing" or "piano-accordioning" this thread? sorry, couldn't help myself, :P

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Which type of Concertina is best?

 

a)The one being played by the puffy, bald-headed, traditional concertina expert

b)The one being played by the pretty girl at the other end of the bar.

c)The one that's been smashed to bits by the guitarist (or envious accordionist)

d)All of the above.

 

Sort of depends on your criteria for "best".

What might appear to you or me as a redundant or idiotic question, may well be a turning point in the future of a budding musician. I'd say it would be very arrogant of either of us to assume any right to discourage, alter, or manipulate the forum's response to this or any question. Not to mention highly unlikely to suceed anyway. Next thread please...

 

I always vote for B myself.

 

Alan

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Well IMO I think maybe if on the main website there was a decision chart:

e.g Do you read music Yes/No, Do you want to play Irish music yes/no....etc.

which will lead you to the right type of concertina for you. ;)

 

Or maybe a list

the Anglo concertina will suit you if.....

 

 

Oh well just an idea anyway.

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