Contra Dances ?

[Peter Brook]

I may be very wrong but i think we have had our own version of what is called contra in England since Ashley Hutchins first plugged his bass guitar in. (Morris On 1972)

 

Previous bands mentioned, such as the albion band, home service, flowers and frolicks, gas mark 5, etc. have been playing ECD with considerble stomp over the past thirty years or so.

 

This mantle has been taken up and adapted slightly by the excellent Brass Monkey.

 

If you have not heard of Brass Monkey try and get a CD or go and see them live. They are a five piece band incorporating trumpet, trombone, concertina/melodeon, mouth organ, percussion and guitar.

Edited June 2, 2004 by Peter Brook

[JimLucas]

...is Contra the same think as Zydacote (or however that is spelt)? If so is it similar to Cajun music?

Not even close. I'm curious as to what prompted you to think they might be related.

I present this evidence!

This line from Jim Besser

Guitar players who don't know jazz chords are in real trouble

Evidence??? Do you know of some direct connection between jazz -- or jazz chords -- and Zydeco? Or between jazz and Cajun, which is known for using accordions that have only two simple chords? I don't.

 

and this one from Brian Humphrey

Many of the tunes have Celtic, New England, Appalachian, or Quebecois roots or influences

Again, any connection to Zydeco or Cajun is pretty tenuous. None of the listed areas of influence is close to Louisiana, in either geography or culture.

 

Neither the musics nor the dances of Cajun or Zydeco are related to New England contras.

[JimLucas]

I may be very wrong but i think we have had our own version of what is called contra in England since Ashley Hutchins first plugged his bass guitar in. (Morris On 1972)

Yes, you're very wrong, and I wish you would stop sowing confusion with wild -- and incorrect -- speculation.

 

The fact that a robin's breast and the shell of a boiled lobster may both be described as red does not imply that they are closely-related animals.

 

Similarly, noting that modern contra dance guitarists tend to use jazz chords, and knowing that Brass Monkey's playing is not stodgy old-style does not mean that they sound similar (it would be very difficult to confuse Wild Asparagus with Brass Monkey or Albion Band by listening, as difficult as confusing Django Reinhardt and Martin Carthy), much less that the dancing done to their musics is closely related. They are all great, but they are all quite different. (There is in fact a historical connection between New England contra dancing and contemporary but "traditional style" English dances, but that connection predates Morris On by a good 200 years.)

 

England does have its various dance forms and styles, but I don't know of any that would be confused with a contra in Greenfield, Massachusetts (where even Friday and Saturday night dances are distinguishable to a listener/observer). What the English have is great, but please don't belittle it by suggesting that any of it is a "version of what is called contra" in America. One might just as reasonably confute beer and lemonade.

 

Please listen to some Wild Asparagus or Nightingale and watch some videos of American contra dances, and then if you think I'm wrong, I'll welcome you back to the fray.

[Brian Humphrey]

Peter, I think we may agree that the energy and the spirit of innovation found at many contra dances is a shared characteristic of the Music of Ashley Hutchings or Brass Monkey, but I don't equate them. The dance traditions that we've mentioned in this thread each make me feel very differently when I dance them or play them, and I don't know how to put that in words.

Brian

 

[edited for simplicity]

Edited June 4, 2004 by Brian Humphrey

[Alan Day]

Brian,there appears to be a bit of confusion here as two different threads are running at the same time.Tim some time ago replied to a point from Lisa regarding English country Dance, saying that basically it was a bit boring compared with Contra.It was agreed that this was probably the case but a new wave of bands playing in the Uk for the past twenty years have changed the style of country dance music into a more exciting and acceptable style for attracting new dancers.

I have never seen Contra dancing so cannot compare the styles and although some interesting points have been raised,it is never the same as watching it performed.

If standard jigs and reels are used for Contra I doubt if the speed of the music would alter much as watching dancers for many years the dancers will only react to a faster speed by taking smaller steps.From what has been written the Contra dances themselves are more frantic (more moves)than perhaps the more sedate English style of traditional dance and that is where the possible difference is.Perhaps someone would confirm that.I have asked the question regarding special steps and that appears not to be the case so it must be the dances themselves.

Al

[Brian Humphrey]

Alan, thanks for the clarification -- it helped me piece together everyone's contributions. I think I am in agreement with your comments about this thread and about dance tempos.

Brian

[David Barnert]

From what has been written the Contra dances themselves are more frantic (more moves)than perhaps the more sedate English style of traditional dance and that is where the possible difference is.Perhaps someone would confirm that.I have asked the question regarding special steps and that appears not to be the case so it must be the dances themselves.

Al

Contradances need not (in fact, should not) be frantic. Most of it is walking in time to a 32-bar tune (played at approximately 110 beats/minute. Circle left, circle right. Active couple down the center and back. That sort of thing. As Jim mentioned, the only parts that aren't just walking are the balance and the swing, which are consecutive and in that order (English Country dancers think: "set and turn single").

 

It gets frantic when people who don't really know what they're doing see more experienced folks adding embellishments like twirls and fancy balances and thinking that it's required. That sort of thing is only appropriate if you can do it gracefully without screwing up the timing of what comes next. Many folks would say it's never appropriate.

 

Here's a simple contradance you can walk through by yourself, just imagine other dancers and a band. The band is playing your favorite 32-bar tune as above. A line of men (on the caller's right) and a line of women (on the left) face each other, each person opposite their partner. "Up" is toward the caller and "down" is toward the back of the hall.

 

In preparation, each pair of couples takes "hands four" so that everyone knows which is the active couple (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc.) and which is inactive (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.).

 

The caller has taught the dance (often with a "walk-through"). The band plays "four potatoes" (usually four "oom-pah's" from the piano on the main chord of the key the tune's in). The caller starts calling [each call takes 4 bars of music, and each bar covers two steps]:

 

Circle left once around.

Circle right back to place.

1st corners (active man and inactive woman) allemande right (right hands around).

2nd corners allemande right.

Down the center 4-in-line (men in the center) and turn around individually.

Up the center and form your lines.

Rights-and-lefts (8 bars: right hands over, left hand along the line, and repeat: 2 steps per change)

 

That's 32 bars. Note that you've "progressed" (the actives and inactives have switched places. Each now dances the same figures with the next opposite couple. Don't worry about what happens at the ends of the lines when there's no "next" couple.

 

Other more imaginative contradances (I just made that one up as I was typing) will be more interesting and challenging, but they rarely require more complicated steps, except for the balance and swing, which I deliberately left out of this one.

 

That's how a "New England" contradance works. The word "contradance" can also be used to refer to an evening event that might also include a square dance or a hambo or other couple dance, and almost always ends with a waltz.

 

I went to my first contradance in 1977 in Boston and in 1985 formed a band to play for them in New York City. Back then my main instrument was the Hammered Dulcimer. I still tend to think of the standard "32-bar" tune (like the ones on Alan's tutor CD) as contradance tunes.

[JimLucas]

[That's how a "New England" contradance works. The word "contradance" can also be used to refer to an evening event that might also include a square dance or a hambo or other couple dance, and almost always ends with a waltz.

I think David's distinction is basically what I mentioned -- in the earlier contradance Topic/thread -- that there is "contradance" the dance form, and there is "contradance" the event. I guess there is also "contradance" the culture, and this is where I think the "last waltz" comes in. I think you'd be hard put to find a place in New England these days where they don't end their contra dance with a "last waltz", but I remember contra dances from my early years in New York City (I started in 1969, so a few years before David) which didn't have a "last waltz", so I don't think of that as a necessary element of a contra dance event. Stil, these days it does seem to be a strong element in the contra dance cultural tradition. (But is it just contra dance? Do they also have a last waltz -- or something equivalent -- at swing dances, or "Vintage" dances?)

 

I went to my first contradance in 1977 in Boston and in 1985 formed a band to play for them in New York City. Back then my main instrument was the Hammered Dulcimer. I still tend to think of the standard "32-bar" tune (like the ones on Alan's tutor CD) as contradance tunes.

One can easily use the same tunes. The difference is in how they are played, in "the feel". It's how the individual notes are lengthened or shortened, in the relative stress put on the different notes, even changing dynamics within an individual note. I'll repeat the Irishman's comment on hearing Nightingale (the band): "You're the best band I've ever heard play Irish music backwards." The tunes -- and the notes -- can be the same, yet the feeling of the music can be radically different. The same can also be true in comparing American and English, and I'd even go so far as to say that "the same dance" -- the same sequence of named figures -- would feel and even look quite different when done by New England contra dancers than when done at a contemporary English country (barn? ceili?) dance.

[Chris Timson]

I may be very wrong but i think we have had our own version of what is called contra in England since Ashley Hutchins first plugged his bass guitar in. (Morris On 1972)

Actually Ashley Hutchings in 1972 (much as I enjoyed Morris On) was almost totally irrelevant to the English country music revival. The bands I'm thinking about are Umps & Dumps, Old Swan Band, Flowers and Frolics, New Victory Band, Ticklers Jam and many others, not fogetting callers like Eddie Upton who researched and called the dances. Only later in the Etchingham Steam Band did Ashley Hutchings contribute, and if memory serves me correctly he played an accoustic bass guitar.

 

If you want bands that catch that atmosphere today look to Grand Union or The Bismarks. Better still, come to the English Country Music Weekend in Gloucestershire at the end of this month and be astonished.

 

Chris

Edited June 4, 2004 by Chris Timson

[jmyersgoucheredu]

ECD in America is most often used in the way way we in England might say Playford or Playford-style.

Then that's a change from when I learned the term a generation ago. To me ECD has always included contemporary English dances, including the rowdier (barn dance?) types.

Perhaps because we have such a strong contradance community here (Baltimore/Washington area), I've always appreciated the clear distinction between what we call English (mostly Playford and similar dances) and contras. When we've had ECD callers visit from England and call what they clearly considered "rowdier" dances, I've found them to be disappointing neither-fish-nor-fowl kind of dances, losing the stateliness of Playford and not achieving the vigor of contradances. On the other hand, the dancers who do mostly or entirely ECD seem to appreciate these rowdier dances much more than I do.

 

By the way, there are two contradances at Glen Echo. Unfortunately, the Sunday Night dance takes place in the bumper car pavillion. Last Sunday, while we were dancing contras there, there was a line of about 50 people waiting to get into a swing dance in the Spanish Ballroom.

 

Jeff Myers

[Jim Besser]

By the way, there are two contradances at Glen Echo.  Unfortunately, the Sunday Night dance takes place in the bumper car pavillion.  Last Sunday, while we were dancing contras there, there was a line of about 50 people waiting to get into a swing dance in the Spanish Ballroom.

 

Jeff Myers

 

So come on out tonight and help expand the free reed section as the Open Band plays for the Washington Folk Festival dance! Help me not be the only concertina player in the throng.

Edited June 5, 2004 by Jim Besser

[Henk van Aalten]

When we've had ECD callers visit from England and call what they clearly considered "rowdier" dances, I've found them to be disappointing neither-fish-nor-fowl kind of dances, losing the stateliness of Playford and not achieving the vigor of contradances. On the other hand, the dancers who do mostly or entirely ECD seem to appreciate these rowdier dances much more than I do.

Jeff

 

Did'nt we agree (when we were young) with the words that Bob Dylan sang: "the times they are a'changing"??

[JimLucas]

Did'nt we agree (when we were young) with the words that Bob Dylan sang: "the times they are a'changing"??

That's about the time I started doing those Balkan dances with time signatures like 7/8, 11/16, 22/32, etc.

[jmyersgoucheredu]

So come on out tonight and help expand the free reed section as the Open Band plays for the  Washington Folk Festival dance! Help me not be the only concertina player in the throng.

Jim, I'd love to but for two problems:

 

First, I don't think I'm quite good enough for prime time.

 

Second, I'm ill and won't be going anywhere tonight.

 

I'll look for you the next time we dance to the open band. I'll be the guy in the black kilt.

 

Jeff Myers

[Jim Besser]

First, I don't think I'm quite good enough for prime time.

Second, I'm ill and won't be going anywhere tonight.

I'll look for you the next time we dance to the open band.  I'll be the guy in the black kilt.

Jeff Myers

 

 

Sorry you're sick. It was a great dance and a great open band, with 2 concertinas among the 25 or so instruments.

 

The next open band is June 11. If you're around, come up and introduce yourself!

Edited June 6, 2004 by Jim Besser