Wolf Molkentin

Yes indeed (and you didn't even mention the horn section!) - and it's really fun to watch and listen; the moment when the third lady's entering, what's gonna happen next? Surprise, she's playing am mean trombone...! :D Glad that I'm not alone in choosing this one (yes, this time I'm not making any secret of that!), wanted to do it all along, love to play it on the piano anyway! Besides, it had been smashing Eric Burdon who once introduced me to the song, had all the records from The Animals old and new...

Stuart has provided his recording as announced... Stuart, interesting indeed! Firstly I'm not alone in my modal understanding of the B part! For the rest: very different kind of ornamentations (not that there are that much in this particular recording of mine), everything has a very nice Morris dance feel with it as to me! Thank you for sharing!

I doubt that in a way. You hear quite often not only the passing tone of F with Star of the County Down, but as well the Bb with Amazing Grace - which has the fundamental of F according to Jim's discussing it, which means it would otherwise be lacking not just the seventh (E or Eb) but in addition to that the fourth (Bb, or - of the Lydian mode - B natural). We seem to be quite used to completing the scale, at least to the Hexatonic, just leaving the ambiguity of major / Mixolydian. Barbara Allen in my recording as well as in Stuart's closes the gap from 5 to 6 pitches (adding a fourth) not earlier than at the very end, but it does. Put another way: Of the major-triad modes only the Lydian seems to sound unfamiliar to us (at least in melodic terms)...

...oh Johnny, one more day... Good luck with selling this jedcertina (wasn't that the name for those?)! Had been watching it back then myself... See you soon... Best wishes - Wolf

I don't have a clue to which numbers you are talking about, but there had been pretty much conversation over the last days (including Valentina's story)...

And what a great little tune it is! Anyway, some say they won't even give it a try...

IMO it's rather the other way round: the "gap" (als Jack calls it) leaves it to your choice to (ordinarily consistently) narrow down the amiguity to just one of the six traditional "church" modes. OTOH, one of the choices at hand would of cause (and as with any tune regardless of its scale being completed to seven notes or not) be to willingly avoid some chords for a certain intended mood). In the case of penta- or hexatonic scales it would be likely to limit one's accompaniment to the "material" to ne drawn from the current scale then. And as to "Star of the County Down" I second David's remark regarding the pretty intruding F (thus choosing Aeolian/natural minor, in the key of A in this case). In fact, when I just play the tune as sort of a dance I engage the F as a passing note anyway. One alternative would "theoretically" be Dorian (with F# instead), which never occurred to me for this tune though - instead of the F major triad there would appear a D major triad then at times, which otherwise might function as a passing secondary dominant (as related to Cmaj, the parallel major key to Amin, the then determined key of the tune) in the B-part (which actually would be recognized as in Cmaj then); Dmaj7 as leading to Gmaj at that point. Anyway, I wouldn't need neither Dmaj (of the Dorian logic) nor Dmaj7 (as "guiding" secondary dominant when retaining the tune in natural minor) here.

David, you'll have to face two things having sliipped your memory Your own recording for the purpose of presenting the then new Beaumont (it's the second video) Our short discussing a second accidental missing and my choice of the Mixolydian mode for the middle B section at that time. As said, your video provided the intial inspiration for learning the tune to me, and IMO I have retained your bounce and nonetheless adapted it to my own playing. Back then it was just a Demo recording for the purpose of discussion, and at the moment there is still some need of polishing (no decade-long experience and just one, two days of occasionally rehearsing after having unlearned the tune pretty much for whatever reason, just lost track sometime). But however, that's the sound I like to squeeze out - and I'm happy about having been able to re-appropriate the tune now... Best wishes - Wolf P.S.: I had recorded a second Demo the day before which had still been pretty unsettled, but whenever coming back to listening to the two takes I can't avoid the impression of the ornamentation just in the significant bar of the B-part having unfortunately lost it's clarity in the current recording. Thus I'll have to rework this detail as well; it's a skill of its own not to hasten ornamentations which seems to happen to me frequently (I suppose, when shifting my attention to just another detail or aspect)...

Never could have expected this sort of compliment; I couldn't be happier regarding my playing a dance tune; thank you very much indeed!

Steve, thank you for the response - I'm glad you liked the recording (albeit it's still not a perfect one)! I hope that you, Stuart, will as well like not just the tune... P.S.: The tune is in fact wonderful! Do you have a recording of your own playing it, Stuart? I would love to listen to it, too...

Makes for a pretty good introduction as to me, Chuck! It might be added that "hearing" a certain mode can be supported by figuring the sound of the related chords, say the significant alternation of minor tonic (I) and major subdominant (IV) for recognizing the Dorian mode, and just the other way round of major tonic (I) and minor dominant (V) for the Mixolydian mode (for instance for D Dorian D minor and G major, and for G Mixolydian G major and D minor). The major and minor chords as referred to are basically triads made of a 1) major: a major third (4 semitones) and then a minor third (3 semitones) 2) minor: a minor third (3 semitones) and then a major third (4 semitones) With their sounds in mind the manoeuver as described above can be performed. Example for "hearing" Dorian: "Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme" (from "Scarborough Fair") Example for "hearing" Mixolydian: bar 5-6 (resp. 9-10, repeats included) of "my" Apley House" (the latter initially being recorded just for that pupose) Hope that helps... (edited to add the examples)

I had mainly been a piano and piano accordion player until discovering the English concertina for me some 2 1/2 years ago. It had been the intuition of one single morning, bought the instrument via eBay and never looked back. Certainly no way to suggest to others, I was very lucky... But my point is as follows: beforehand I had been determined to get me an Anglo, based upon some experience with the melodeon (and even the 20 button "German" concertina, a "core" Anglo if you like). But the Anglo I had ordered left me totally disappointed, and thus I was very glad being able to refund it due to a technical flaw (swapped reeds). Considered Duet then, but hey - the English was it, without doubt, even keeps me from playing the piano after decades! That's my story - best wishes with yours, still to develop! Wolf

Re-learned and recorded to my moderate satisfaction for the time being (didn't mangage to slow it further down): Apley House - thrice trough As always: any comments appreciated! Best regards, Wolf Edited to add that David's nice impromptu recording of the tune had been the initial inspiration for going for it...

Steve, thank you again for your interest and kind remarks! As to "accent" this is one of my own concerns ever since I took up singing; I believe the problem mainly occurs with certain songs such as this one, and - as I hear it myself - particularly at particular points (from where the effect might be sort of spreading over the whole tune for the listener) where the allocation of syllables is less-than-ideal anyway. So detailed working on the text combined with further practising as Stuart suggested may significantly reduce the unfavourable impression; at least that's what I hope. Stuart and Eve, thank you very much for the recognition of "authenticity"!

Well, things are getting a bit complicated meanwhile - albeit me accounting the basic concept quite simple. Jack, if you have a look to the original topic you will notice that I - let's say by accident - was just discovering the ambiguity (what you call a "gap") of pentatonic (or, if you want, to a lesser extent, hexatonic as well) scales and thus an "extra" worth of different options for added harmony. And you've got it right: with Apley House it's pretty much the same. But in that case it hadn't been just a matter of choosing from different options of harmonization but, from my perspective, of accidentals. When the whole tune (covering all three parts) is written out with just one accidental (F#) it will be Gmaj - Dmix - Gmaj (with an Amin chord in the B part, as you say, albeit only at the start of bar 10, which you might have wanted to say as well) instead of the apparently common Gmaj - Dmaj - Gmaj, where you obwiously have to add a C# (which doesn't conflict with the melody due to it lacking of C natural either). And Jim, therefore I wouldn't look upon that manoeuver as "breaking the rules", rather obeserving them with respect to the staff notation. However, you're right in insisting that this is to be seen without any "system" as well: if you just confine your playing (i.e. harmonizing) to the material from Gmaj, i.e. G-A-B-C-D-E-F#. I just re-recorded my pretty rough Demo from thence for further discussion (without further rehearsal): => Apley House twice thru <= => Apley House thrice thru <=

Jim, I'm not talking about "rules" that much. As to me it's just useful to know from which material chords are likely to be built when I have a melody for instance with a minor third and a major sixth (i.e. Dorian). And yes, I do apply this to the music. Once I listened to David introcing me to Apley House I decided to harmonize the "B" section which is noted in another key but without changing of accidentals in the proper Mixolydian mode, i.e. with a minor chord on the V, which worked pretty well as to me. Another example would be understanding American movie scores (well, some of them) and play around in that mood, which seems in fact widely to be constituted by a certain mode (Lydian). I was delighted by this discovery which enabled me to ambulate in sort of a New World of its own. It's these experiences which I actually have in mind... Best wishes - Wolf

I don't know exactly what you are referring to by that, but there seemed to be the desire for sort of a primer. Besides, my own personal background to this topic is more related to "classical" or Jazz music anyway. However, IMO even the simplest system or concept (as to the current topic: just starting with maj/min parallelism which is in my experience not common knowledge) will be helpful as long as it is not misleading. Thank you for providing the link to interesting topics of yours - I will have a more detailed look any time soon.

That's what I have been thinking as well. The warning not to spoil the ends with the use of oil had to be issued, but if carefully applied it might be worth a try however, depending on the skills of the repective owner.

I was replying to a request in another thread (regarding the Mixolydian mode) as follows: Well, the "church" modes - I had a look at the current Wikepdia exposition this morning and got the impression of it being too detailed and thorough for a "primer" by far. I will be happy to explain it myself but I have to be busy vocationally this day. If you have a piano keyboard at hand you might just try to play 8-note-scales starting from different notes, thereby never quitting the "white" keys. There you'll have them, the modes. If we ignore the last one - from B to B - for the moment they are six. Three of them allow to built major chords on the root note, three of them allow to built minor chords instead. It's just an extension of the major/minor concept (you know: "natural" Amin as being "parallel" to Cmaj due to sharing all of their notes). The next common mode might be the Dorian one (from D to D using just white keys). It's the world of "Scarborough Fair" and the likes. I have to leave it at that for the moment - you might check out this site as a starting point. I then suggested creating a separate topic for discussing these casually recurring questions which I do herewith. Best regards to all - Wolf edit: typo from the original post corrected

Albeit I wouldn't mind any "Walter" taking the credits for whatever he'd done I assume it's me who was in your mind... It's obvious that I can't (and hardly anyone ever will) meet the taste of all, but I'm truly thankful for the encouragement from someone like you who really seem to appreciate what I'm doing here. Of course I'm annoyed at the flaws whilst critically listening to the recording myself. But OTOH I believe I'm pretty much on my personal way, and I take it from you that I'm not mistaken with that. Best wishes - Wolf

Except for the accidentals, you have the notes in rising fifths, whereas sidesways you find thirds. Another way of looking upon it would be playing a scale in Cmaj. You'd start with the "lowest" button on the left side, then the "lowest" on the right, then switch to the left side again, but use the center row, a.s.f.; you will find yourself playing in constant alternation between left and right as long as there are notes left in these (four) rows (nearly two octaves in the case of Valentina). Feel free to ask further on! Best wishes - Wolf

Yes, I've quickly got melody and chords from your recording, it's fun to play; however I'll have to work out something replacing the oomp-pah... Will provide my recording shortly. Best wishes - Wolf

You're a Heavyweight Boxer on my computer screen...

Stuart, I'm very glad that you like my transformation of your version as well, thank you! Chuck, thank you very much for the attention and your kind and considerate commenting! You will have noticed my coming close to derailing due to sort of a jawbreaker... And as to style, I have been very lucky to attend two workshops held by unique and amiable Shirley Collins. And with her representing kind of a wise and gracious super-ego of mine since then I realized soon after posting that I'd have to shift the accent in the significant last line of the second last verse from "from" to "her". I continue working on the song (and others) anyway... I've heard the version you submitted sometime and like it as well albeit (or just because) being that different. Thank you for providing me with some more variants! Folk music is that enchanting as to me... Best regards - Wolf

Well, the "church" modes - I had a look at the current Wikepdia exposition this morning and got the impression of it being too detailed and thorough for a "primer" by far. I will be happy to explain it myself but I have to be busy vocationally this day. If you have a piano keyboard at hand you might just try to play 8-note-scales starting from different notes, thereby never quitting the "white" keys. There you'll have them, the modes. If we ignore the last one - from B to B - for the moment they are six. Three of them allow to built major chords on the root note, three of them allow to built minor chords instead. It's just an extension of the major/minor concept (you know: "natural" Amin as being "parallel" to Cmaj due to sharing all of their notes). The next common mode might be the Dorian one (from D to D using just white keys). It's the world of "Scarborough Fair" and the likes. I have to leave it at that for the moment - you might check out this site as a starting point. Maybe this should better be resumed separately (same community, new thread). Best wishes - Wolf