Azalin

Well, this thread is for those like me who think the top of the top "concertina-reeded" concertina makers are Suttner and Dipper. If you don't agree, move along, there's nothing to see here :-) I had the chance to try Suttners and Dippers in the past few years, as recently as last week. We talk a lot about Dipper and Suttner being both amazing makers, but I've never seen a thorough comparison between the two? Taboo? Impossible to compare? Maybe, but I'm still looking for answers. I havent played them enough to notice subtle differences. The most obvious difference I've noticed so far is weight, the Suttners seemed to be more heavy than the Dippers I tried. From what I remember, action and sound were both as amazing on both, but as I said, I didnt have enough time to try *and* I'm not an advanced player enough to notice subtlelties. It seems many professional musicians with CDs own Suttners, like Tim Collins and Michael O'Rahilly to name a few. Does that mean anything? Oh and please, I'm talking pure "technical" here, it's not about "any concertina can sound good in the hands of a great player", it's more about the instrument's "raw technical potential". Any input from people who had the chance to compare, or own both, greatly appreciated.

Definitely going to buy the CD when I'm over there in november.

I honnestly don't mind if the concertina is being called a lesser instrument. Now I wouldnt want to know how the whistle is being called! At the end of the day, I don't like classical music, I just find it boring to hell. You could argue it's because I'm not really refined and can't grasp the internal beauty of the music, but at the end of the day, it just doesnt get to me. But irish music always got to me, it's a language I can try to understand and get a lot from it. When I listen to a good concertina player, for example, I'm totally mesmerized, it's like sweet poetry to my ears :-) If playing irish concertina is so much easier than any classical music, I'm glad it is, because it's amazingly hard for me and will probably spend a lifetime learning and trying to improve. I don't think I'd have the potential to play classical music and actually enjoy myself, especially not as a hobby. But I agree with the above. Noel Hill might be a virtuoso of irish playing concertina, but I'm convinced it's nothing compared to a virtuso in classical music. It's all relative. (I personnaly don't care much about Noel Hill or Vallely's playing, I would rather listen to Claire Keville, Tim Collins and Edel Fox, to name the 'most known', but there's also much 'less known' concertina players especially from the west of Ireland I'd rather listen to also)

I can barely play 20 of my 30 buttons, I think I'll pass on the 38

Yes, yes, you are right, the concertina is definitely an inferior instrument, especially the C/G anglo. Please spread the word, it might bring down their prices a bit and shorten waiting lists

Ah Kilshanny House! David invited me to play there once, it's one great pub, and great patrons... Lucky you guys!

... and meanwhile, I need to pay at least 600 euros to get anywhere near Europe.

Well, this is the biggest sale I've seen with the fewest details... 5500 pounds and only one picture to help you decide if you're willing to spend 11 000$ :-)

Thanks, that looks promising. I actually don't mind, I'm very excited about the whole idea of taking classes and "getting out there". My problem is that for four years I practiced trying to get a good rhythm and get used to the notes and buttons, play the octave and get used to chords... But I never really practiced or learned proper concertina technique, the whole thing evades me. Claire Keville showed me some "rolls" I'm trying to reproduce on the G and E but it's still pretty cryptic to me. I've been teaching a quebecois kid concertina for the past few months. I've told them from the beginning that I was not an advanced player and I lacked the true technique, but they insisted. So I got him going, and he's doing pretty well. Gearóid Ó hAllmhuráin is currently in Montreal and I got him to get a lesson with a real expert. So yeah I've been avoiding 'hurting' the kid by teaching him to try to play steady rhythm before trying to do anything else, and for now to get used to one fingering pattern and then 'optimize' his playing with time by discovering new button patterns etc. Anyway the kid is going to go to Catskills and take lessons so I'm very happy about this, he's a bit intimidated because his english is quite limited, but Gearóid speaks french and I told him I'd go in lovely Edel's class with him and be the translator if needs be :-) OK sorry for my life story, bottom line I'm now serious at actually learning the technique so can't wait for classes! PS: cocusflute is a great dude and I suggest you visit him if you have a chance, the food is always amazing the only real challenge is to find his house, last time I had to hire a local to find his place :-)

Well, as for myself I'm going to cross my fingers about the fact that that group lessons are good enough to learn a few things. I guess it can't be worse than not taking any classes at all :-)

Yeah but in practice I noticed that some of the teachers (at Willie Week anyway) dare not tell a student they don't belong in a class. I'd rather have a teacher tell me "You're not advanced enough yet, go to this class" but some people can't handle this sort of heat and would get all upset but by being this way they also sadly screw up other people's experience

Thanks lady, it makes sens. I hate the fact that people can 'rate' themselves. It's too bad, the more serious or talented players and paying the price for those who don't have a clue. See ya there anyway, and hopefully you'll show me some tricks :-)

Haha crazy man! But thanks for the heads up, I guess I will do that. By the way I'm 99.99% sure I'll make it again in november, and this time I'll have two bottles of wine

Well, I'm mainly wondering if you will really get what I call advanced players in the advanced class. Most of the time, 'advanced' is actually intermediate, from my point of view, the really advanced players not taking lessons and playing in the pubs or sleeping instead :-) But maybe it's different for concertina and I'll also humiliate myself in the advanced class... but I'd rather humiliate myself than feeling sorry I didnt take the advanced class.

I got a question, though. From those who attended the classes before, what's the difference between 'intermediate' and 'advanced' ? I think I would categorize myself as 'intermediate' concertina player, but always ended up wishing I took the advanced class because I do practice an hour or two mostly every day so I'm willing to put the effort into it. Do you think it would be sensible for me to take an advanced class in the morning and one the evening? Would my brain overheat?

Wow this seems super cool. I like the fact that Tim Collins doesnt only "teach tunes", because I always said that you can learn tunes at home, but it's harder to learn technique by yourself. So I'm definitely going to try to get in Collin's class, and will see about the other.

Thanks for the info. I'll probably be taking my first concertina class at the Catskills.

Well, as for myself, I would not trust any shipping company with a Dipper or another high end concertina. The day my Dipper is ready, I will buy a flight ticket to England and going to get it myself. So eBay is not the only problem in my opinion when it comes to very expensive instruments.

OK I guess for us sniping doesnt have the same meaning. You can be certain that the day I see a Colin Dipper concertina on eBay, and want to bet on it, first thing will do is log in and press on the "Place a bid" button just to make sure I qualify for bidding... if I get no error message and get the box to bid, I will then cancel and wait until the last minute to put my maximum bidding. So yeah that's different than "automated sniping" for me anyway as I'll get some user interaction going. Now, to people who are likely to use an automated system to snipe on an item they really want... please don't come back screaming "unfairness" if you can't get your item because the sniping server was *down* at the time it was supposed to snipe. It's a risk you are taking, deal with it. You will hear me cry and scream, but not complain of unfairness, if my internet provider goes down or my computer blows up at the last minute I wanted to place a bet. I will deal with the risks involved. If I want to make 100% *sure* my bet goes through, I will place my maximum bid early. This way, if my computer blows up, I have enough time to find a new one... But if I miss a Dipper because my internet provider went down... you can be certain I will be calling them and scream for ages :-)

You are implying that the problem which is the topic of this thread was caused by risks inherent in sniping, but not in "old-fashioned" bidding. According to the evidence presented here, that is not the case. Well, I guess we did interpret it differently. I read, or understood, that to link a Paypal account to your eBay account there's some settings you need to change. The person *did* change it afterward, and next time the bidding will go on. The reason why the person didnt see that the required setting wasnt set the first time is because the person used "sniping", which doesnt allow user interaction before you actually bid. So yeah that's why I stand behind my "If you are going to snipe, deal with the risks involved".... and one of the risks is not being able to react to anything that requires human intervention to make your bid go through.

The other thing is that there's something called 'reserve' on eBay so the seller should have put one if he didnt want to have too low of a price, so I really don't understand what the fuss is about :-)

By the way I certainly don't agree with this. There are people who shop on eBay because they want a bargain. You might be willing to pay x for an item but you're looking for a bargain and will wait until you pay only y, thus having the feeling you saved money. That's the reason why many, many eBayers, like me, will wait until the last second to put the maximum bid. It's not because I'm illogical, it's because I want to maximize the chances I'll get a bargain, meaning I'll pay less than what I'm willing to pay. So I can understand why someone would bid many, many times. I think it's a total waste of time, as I'm not willing to waste a few hours of concentration for a few dollars' savings, but I'm sure you can get good bargains this way, like the person who won this concertina. I can tell you right away, if I was the winner of this concertina I would not try to sort out any deal. The other buyers should have used the old fashionned bidding system, if you want to use sniping, deal with the risks. If you put an item on eBay and you're not ready to deal with a low price for your item, an 'unfair' price, then don't use eBay, use old fashion classifieds. It's a bit like this Northern Rock thingy in England. While I was in the UK I could hear people on the radio complaining that they lost money with Northern Rock, it was their retirement plan blabla, and that the government should back them and protect them against losses. I was glad to hear some experts say it was 'nonsens' as these people knew or should have known the risks of investing in the stock market, and take responsability for it.

As some people said, I guess it's all about respecting the overall "feel" of the session you are joining. I personally love melody, and don't enjoy listening or playing music where melody is 'weakened' by non melody elements. I love to have a guitar, but when it gets beyond that, I lose interest. I also sit down and practice tunes. Sometimes I will practice tunes for a few months before I play them at a session. When I don't know a tune, I leave my instrument on the table and listen. So yeah I'm one of those who will find noodling and harmonies distasteful (with expections of course) and I will take it as a lack of sensitivity. It's not because I read some piece of paper with rules on it. It's just the way I see it, and I'm trying to play with likewise people. The thing I can't stand is someone who comes in with a "jam" state of mind in a session without even checking if it's appropriate first. But then, there's always people who will smoke in your face without trying to spare you from the smoke, or people who will interrupt your conversation with someone without apologizing first, etc. There's people who will travel to a new country without reading about the local customs there so that you don't end being perceived as 'rude' or else. It's a matter of personality I guess. I'm just puzzled at why some people simply don't get there's some session 'etiquette' and thinks it's simply a 'snubby' thing.

I'm actually glad it sold for that much. At this price, not only was the instrument totally unreachable for me, but I get comfort in knowing I'll get a new Dipper at half this price in a year and a half. I would have been a tad pissed off if the instrument sold for 'only' 4000 pounds though.

I think you are completely nuts if you have this item delivered oversea! A Jeffries like this, you go and get it yourself in the UK that's for sure, even if you gotta pay 800$ for the ticket.