tombilly

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17817

That's not being a 'chancer' - it's simply called 'horse trading' and perfectly acceptable, legitimate and should be widely encouraged!

LOL - the screwdriver on the table isn't very encouraging!! Yes, I carry a small one in my case but very rarely have to use it, touch wood..

I've met Sean Garvey a few times - bought a couple of accordions from him a few years ago. Found him generally helpful - good after sales support etc. He's been in the business for around 10 years at a guess and you don't stay that long in this type of venture if you don't look after your customers. That said, I never tried any of his concertinas. To original poster - always remember this site is mostly visited by people from USA/ UK etc. and they are not necessarily conversant with the scene in Ireland.

Re original post, perhaps it's not surprising when you consider the fact that in Ireland just a few years ago, we had a big thing going on with 'army deafness' claims. Started with a couple of test cases by soldiers who claimed they had not been issued with ear protectors when on training exercises. When they were successful, the proverbial flood gates opened and it seemed that all & sundry jumped on the bandwagon

If you can hum or sing a tune or piece of music, then play around with transposing it - just start on a different place on the scale of notes. That's transposing by ear - you know the tune and your brain can sort out the intervals between the notes, no matter where you start. I think, in some ways, a sign of real progress on a musical instrument is to be able to do the same on it - to trust yourself and your muscle memory to find the right notes and intervals by ear - you don't need any software other than what's in your head already. Try it on easy melodies and ones you know well.

Just curious - the fretwork on this model looks a good bit 'coarser' than the better quality 'Rosewood' models that are mentioned by Chris Algar. Is this one of the 'mahogany' ended quality models or something in between those and the fine fretted models?

That was an interesting read with accessible explanations of the different types of concertinas. I suppose the issue is still whether to justify spending 2000+ $/Euro on an accordion reeded instrument when 1000+ more will get up into the well built concertina reeded instruments. The waiting list and the relatively slow output of the latter is the key. Lachenal produced concertina reeded instruments on a 'factory' basis with high output for a good number of years. Maybe the demand was higher then but has it not climbed greatly in the last decade? Perhaps that's the solution - but it would need a leap of faith by one of the artisan type manufacturers. Being self employed myself, I understand - it's handy and less stressful to have enough work on hand to create a sufficient income for my family needs. Expansion involves many risks and worries.

I've helped our children learn how to sit up, stand, walk, eat, talk, squabble, get on with people, play a few tunes etc. etc. .... all the important things in life!! Come to that, I've also helped to fix up bloody knees, runny bottoms and various assorted ailments..... doctors, teachers? - sure aren't we all these things in the greater scheme of life?

deleted - double post

There's a useful book (sheet music and CD) called the Traditional Slow Airs of Ireland by Tomas O Canainn as here but found elsewhere http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/096634/details.html I can't remember if Bunclody is in it but anyways the best way to learn pieces like these is by ear from a recording.

Your original question relates to Irish trad music. Always bear in mind that this music is essentially melody driven - melody is the core and you need to know the melodies/ tunes well. The idea of just 'jamming along' with a few chords to tunes that you don't know doesn't sound great to me. I suppose it depends on who you play with and how accepting they are but I reckon you'd get short shrift in most sessions in Ireland. Better to sit out the tunes you don't know and join in on the others. Irish anglo players do play chords and doublenote in octaves but sparingly and to supplement the melody.

I assume you're playing Irish trad. from your description. You don't mention whether you already play trad on another instrument. Assuming not, you have two tasks 1) to learn the music and 2) how to get it out on your instrument. To play anyway fluently, you need first, to have the tune 'in your head' and then know which fingers/ muscles move to hit the notes in the right place. You might or might not learn a tune from paper but any trad player I've seen would not play at speed from paper. They commit it to memory - in fact, most would learn by hearing the tune played a few times and being able to 'sing' it in their head - the way you pick up a pop song or an advertising ditty. Try slower dance tunes first; waltzes, barndances, hornpipes, set dances etc. Then jigs - reels are usually played quickest. Don't always go either by what you hear on CD's etc. - some people play ridicuously fast. Many tunes have similar phrases which you learn the movements for and the more you play, the easier it gets. A slow & never ending process.

Hi Jess, your dad should be a good guide and help along the way. It's much easier to learn to play an instrument, I think, if there's already a bit of music in the house. But having daughters myself, I fully understand the need to go and check that we really sort of half know what we might be talking about!! Anyway, I don't know much about Australian prices as we live in Ireland but you dad is right insofar as what you say. A three row anglo in C/G is fairly standard for playing Irish trad on and if you go to any workshops/ classes, the vast majority of others will have these. You can play on a 2 row, of course but most people wouldn't, in reality. I have a Lachenal and I like it but mechanically it would not be as good as a recently built hybrid like the ones you mention - odd things can happen and sometimes I have to open it up and fiddle around etc. You mightn't want to do that, so again as your dad says, the hybrid might be a better bet. I could also add that I've seen lots of young players at festivals like the Willie Clancy summer school, playing on these type of hybrid concertinas. Anyway, enjoy your music making and keep up the fiddle! It's a wonderful instrument and capable of a lot more nuance in the long term compared to a mechanical instrument like a concertina - in my very humble opinion!

Try the suggestions at end of this thread http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10458 That solves it

If that's true - it's great news and one in the eye for all the doubters and cynics!! and I'd be a bit inclined to the latter!! David - I flicked through your http://www.paypalwarning.com/ and guess what - the first page is liberally sprinkled with links to a company competing with PayPal for merchant accounts. I mean, come on - I wouldn't believe a single word from a page set up like that regardless.. I'm not stupid enough to believe that PayPal is always fair and honest and I guess the issue is one of how you go about sueing them for breach of contract, especially if the costs of doing so greatly exceed the amount your out of pocket. However I have received a refund in the past for goods that never arrived, that said the amount wasn't huge.

I must admit Theo, that I didn't have time to scrutinise the Ebay - PayPal small print but a general reading indicates that PayPal will refund the buyer when they find in their favour and chase the seller for re imbursement - like the credit card companies. Maybe, I missed a 'get out' clause somewhere but otherwise if I didn't, they are obligated to meet that standard surely. You can't encourage people to purchase under some 'Buyer Protection' scheme if it's worthless. Please point out where PayPal can escape from this committment. Some people here like to knock PayPal and I'm sure like any large financial organisation, they have their moments. But in general they supply a useful service. I use them as a small business to handle credit card payments (nothing to do with music) and whilst, they're a small bit costlier than some other agencies, I find the service simple to operate and I don't have to worry about volume of sales. I was interested recently to receive a call from a staff member there when I withdrew a larger amount than normal from my account - he was just checking that I had authorised it and it wasn't a hack.

Are you sure about that, David?? http://pages.ebay.co...tion/index.html We'll contact seller to help sort things out We'll contact the seller and ask them to solve your issue within 10 days. After 10 days if the problem can't be resolved between you and the seller, you've paid using PayPal and your claim qualifies for coverage with eBay Buyer Protection, eBay will arrange for the purchase price plus original shipping to be refunded through PayPal. That seems to be a clear committment to me - and looking at the full terms and conditions: http://pages.ebay.co...protection.html Where there are insufficient funds in PayPal accounts or where PayPal is not the reimbursement method of a seller, we will require another reimbursement method. For future claims where we find in favour of the buyer, we will notify the seller and continue to charge the sellers preferred method for any reimbursements made under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy. Changing a reimbursement method will not affect eBay's use of a payment method on file for other purposes (such as payment of your eBay fees). If sellers do not provide eBay with a valid reimbursement method, we may collect amounts owed using other collection mechanisms, including retaining collection agencies and/or take one or more of the steps listed in the section below... Maybe things work out differently in practice but I doubt it, otherwise no-one in their right mind would opt for this 'buyer-protection' scheme .. Explain yourself!!

Gosh, you've done a good bit of work on it and it looks like reasonable value given that. I'm curious to know why you didn't retain the original baffles?

Didn't make it down there this year - what are the numbers like knocking around. Is Willie Week recessionary proof?!!

Yes... but if you follow the logic that this is not a temporary downturn, then prospective buyers have to reappraise the value of everything. A piece of property may have been worth $x a couple of years ago but only $y now and in the foreseeable future where $y is substantially less than $x. Nobody is going to pay the higher amount unless they are desperate. Same applies to musical instruments unless I suppose they are quite unique and the maker has departed this life. Owners of musical instruments need to get their head around this - I'd probably make a loss of some degree on my fairly ordinary Lachenal if I sold it now, having purchased it in 2008. But that's the way it is. Things don't always hold their value - it's not written in stone.

I'd repeat that your best bet is to sell locally for highest price you can get and/or the person you'd like to sell it to. That $6300 equates to Euro 5000 + as things stand here in Ireland. Plus any prospective purchaser would have to pay shipping, insurance and then substantial import and VAT fees on receipt. Paying that sort of dosh for an instrument unseen is not particularly attractive and this is at your lower end of expectation. Tough..

Is that not stretching things a bit too far, in favour of the seller, David? We all know the web is full of scammers as well as genuine people with varying degrees of experience. Suppose someone comes on here, chancing their arm, charging way over the odds for a dodgy instrument. Let's suppose a novice, of whom many visit here, spots this and thinks to buy it. Surely you and others who know of these things have a 'moral' duty to flag this. If purchasers can only deal by private mail and everybody else is forbidden to comment publicly - that's a recipe for a ripoff. Sometimes, in places like this I see what I regard as something dodgy and a propsective saying they'll PM the seller - in which case I drop a PM to the purchaser with a note of caution. But that only works when people flag their interest publicly. If I want to buy an instrument then I don't advertise the fact. I just send a quiet PM on the side. There has to be a balance - I think it is right and proper for people to be able to comment on prices. The sellers may not like it - in which case, advertise somewhere else..

Think globally and buy (sell) locally - that's sound advice. If you have a decent offer from someone locally whom you personally know would make good use of such an instrument, then sell it to them.

Well, is that not a bit of a 'silly' question as obviously this concertina community wouldn't exist with the internet... but I don't think it's had much impact on local musical communities. i.e. there are many people here in Ireland who would be playing away and who have little contact with the WWW for musical purposes etc.