Sprunghub

I have a problem with the most commonly used 'A' note on my Crane ( 2nd row right side)....on the pull it 'starts'/sounds/stops as it should......but on the push it closes somewhat 'lazily' and continues to sound whilst 'dying'. The lever and pad seem fine. I have replaced the spring in case it was weak. I have not removed the reed tray to examine the 'inside' faces/reeds/valves pending advice. It is a 55 button instrument and there are no other / similar issues on any other buttons. Is there a likely 'obvious' cause ? In general it gets 'lost' in the playing but it is irritating and if it fixable in the hands of someone with rudimentary fettling skills I would like to resolve it. cheers N

Many thanks....

Hi Dowright, I PM'd some time ago, but you may not have picked it up, I wonder if you might have any record of my two Crane/Lachenals, re. age, one is a 35b Triumph Model, mahogany ends, bone (ivorine ?) buttons, serial number 4062. My guesstimate is 1920's ? The other is a 55 button, raised ebonised ends, nickel buttons, marked as a Crane & Sons. ( Liverpool ) Made by Lachenal, the serial no. is '389. No real idea of age, but "early"ish ? regards

I think that Ebay listing is 'fiddler2007' sale as mentioned in his post at 08.40am yesterday, not the re-sale of his lost/stolen instrument ? ( so not sinister in the context of the thread ) unless corrected.

Did you 'gird your loins' and pull it yet ?......

I doubt the pans on my Lachenal Crane had been out since 1920 something. One of 'my finger' or the pan was going to give first. Eventually it was the pan/s, and boy they let go with some vigour. I was amazed at how much 'energy' was required to get them to budge. If I had pulled in a gentle way like anyone would do I would still be pulling now ! The bottom line seemed to be that the 'fulsome' napped chamois 'above' where the pan sat - and had sat for the best part of a century had to be overcome to get it moving. That part where they rested was greatly compressed compared to that around the rim of the frame. The marvels of the original concept /design / materials.

To add to the sum of all knowledge......25654, is a McCann....as it turns out.....rather than a Crane ? ( not connected with listing) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheatstone-English-Concertina-55-Key-Special/273727825478?hash=item3fbb732646:g:oMcAAOSwciNccw44:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true http://www.horniman.info/DKNSARC/SD01/PAGES/D1P0270S.HTM Time brings all things to my mind....

Yes David, that is along the lines of what I think I am looking for. I see it mentioned in some peoples conversations about their playing and I 'thought' I understood what they were getting at, but wasn't entirely sure. . I start off by finding the melody (by ear ) on the right hand, then - to some extent - forced ( or am forcing myself ) to work more with the left hand to play partial chords and octave notes ( even the right one/s occasionally !) with the melody. I am getting there, but it is a bit too "full" sometimes. I am better at copying then adapting to suit than trying to understand some of the theory, so many thanks.

Does anyone know of any simple to pick up examples on video of how 'call and response' applies in playing - hopefully with a Duet - but adaptable to the Duet, if not ? 'Simple' to pick up / follow is important !

I have used the Milliput on projects. It is very easy to use - bi-coloured 'sausage' cut off a small length, incorporate outer and inner elements by working like Plasticene - for those who remember Plasticene - which most of us of the pre-Play-dough generation will. Works in well, cleans up well and goes off hard. For ultra strong fixes, including bridging, 'thick' Super-glue and Baking Powder is very good, but probably 'too' strong for a fix like that.

Listed currently - appears to have some wear from use, https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-instruments/marcus-concertina/1328562737

Gerald Ratner would be proud of the User name of the Marketing Dept. ? ?

Dear Dowright, I have sent a query via PM which you may miss ?

Sold.

Cross referencing this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C-Wheatstone-Concertina-No-1564-Vintage-Victorian/192800737798?hash=item2ce3d1ca06:g:er4AAOSwN3NcSFFp:rk:7:pf:0 to this http://www.concertina.com/chambers/lachenal-production/ the instrument offered may be one of the earliest examples out there, ie. next production ? That may, or may not add to it's value it looks very tidy ? if original.

In some 1950's Wheatstone's it appears that the chamois is replaced by actual 'top-grain' leather for creating seals. Typical is the Crane Duet in a recent post. This may be as a consequence of a Chamois shortage for a period? Is there a view as to the efficacy or otherwise of using thin leather as opposed to chamois?

Or a No.6 ? if fitted with brass reeds, as stated ? Fully ornamented, but not tempered steel reeded ? for quieter playing but with the looks ? 6. Rosewood-NEWLY IMPROVED, ornamented throughout, silver-tip keys, fine and pure tone, rosewood box ... ... £7 0 0 7. Rosewood-Same finish as No. 4, with tempered steel reeds, rosewood box ... ... £8 0 0 8. THE PARAGON-Rosewood-Extra best finish, German silver keys, tempered steel reeds, which produce a rich, full, round, sonorous, and yet withal most mellow and flute like quality of tone, a combination never hitherto attained, rosewood box ... ... £10 0 0 9. THE INIMITABLE-Rosewood, same finish as No. 6, with tempered steel reeds, rosewood box

I think, that bearing a label which reads "Manufactured expressly FOR Joseph Higham, Manchester", there is no deceit, actual or implied by the vendor, back in the day. It is far more opaque than many Lachenals that bear labels implying that they belonged to a 'Maker' as opposed to simply a vendor/retailer. It seems to have been was a common practice with ( at least ) many stringed instruments too, but very much so with concertina's. A current Anglo case in point........https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-instruments/anglo-concertina-/1326888756 You have probably found this ref. to his Brass instrument factory and sales. http://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/gone/higham.html I wouldn't take it as read that he manufactured Harmoniums, despite the last reference.

You have probably answered your own question/s ? Higham had a shop in Manchester, he sold Lachenal concertina's bearing his shops label, as it seems did just about every other 'Dealer/Shop' throughout the country at the time ? there may be nothing else to discern ?

Hi RAc, it is a 5 fold bellows.....it is a small 'Triumph', Salvation Army model. Wolf - for me to have an understanding of rhythm and harmony 'to' shift would be a bonus !!?It is - I know, very, very basic - even when it is roughly "right"! Achieving that 'extra' / grace note, off piste, illustrative work may take me for ever. Was your recording on a Duet or an English ? I am currently fairly 'locked on' with two notes ( of a chord ) on the "left" hand side whilst playing melody over the top on the right. I have tried some of single note left hand stuff , walking up the chord notes etc and it works ok but getting the 'right' note ( on the left ) as opposed to the pair, whilst getting / moving along with the melody is muddling - as is finding the correct 'single' note/button to go for, or pair. I can repeatedly play it as fast as I like on the right hand for the tune, but it's getting both sides working together that creates the glitches and 'required' me to slow it down and "try" to tidy it up for the recording. Given that a few weeks ago I couldn't pair the sides at all, nor find the next right note and have to do it all by muscle memory, I'm happy to keep cracking on. Ultimately, I am not too concerned about learning 'tunes', I really want to be able to create simple accompaniment for singing solo with the instrument. Even to the point of simply holding a chord ( or partial ) beneath the voice with the odd run of melody. On tunes, it tends to go "ok" until I start 'thinking' about it, ie. at the change from A to B and stopping.....as soon as I 'think' the fingers tie up and the flow stops. I have been here before.....I had the same issues with Mandolin and then chord strummed guitar changes and then starting finger-picking......I could sit for hours 'nailing it', over and over ( and over ) then as soon as I tried to record myself to analyse the tone/timing etc, the red light effect made it all go wrong. All part of the experience.

RCR27 - I have put a clip on of what mine sounds like - would be better in the hands of someone more competent ! It's in the playing section. A poor attempt to emulate Little John's work, but getting better with time.

A first attempt at a recording on my little Crane, with both hands !! and several fingers working at once in something like a synchronised fashion. Occasionally 'tied' due to the 'red recording light' nerves. It's a bit funereal, but most of the notes are in roughly the right order. Dedicated to those beginners who want to know if it is worth undoing the screws on a broken and rusty box and having a go - no doubt others will be best judge ! https://clyp.it/rsb3e03g

....the seller having paid end of listing fee's on a £99 "sale" rather than the % of £325 he owed to Ebay. If rcr needs a bit of leverage it might be useful. The chap has an into the 1,000's history of all sorts and looks to me to be someone who buys locally from Sales/Auctions then re-sells to a WW market via Ebay. An honourable enough past-time but generally without much knowledge of some of the items at hand. He has an EC listed currently at a sensible enough price. Sadly, it does look a big job to take on. Major metal issues and extensive 'bellows' work would probably put me off. ...although bellows making is on my radar should I need to learn for that decrepit 55k one which may, one day, turn up! The rest of it should be pretty much do-able. In case it helps, I have leather ( for straps ), almost a full set of springs - brand new from Mark L-A, and the 3mm ply ( to be reduced to 1.5mm ) to strengthen the ends. If you do decide to have a go, you are welcome to any of the above for a very negligible / discounted cost ( if not free ! ) You can borrow my tuning table too, if practical although I think you are a fair way off.

I paid more than I wanted at around £275 in a Uk Auction. It was chased up by A.N.Other interested bidder, which was a shame at the time! The only compensation being that no matter how stupid I was to spend that much someone else was nearly as stupid as me !! I would not have gone much higher, although I am very happy now that I didn't bale earlier. I did have the advantage of having a chance, due to a South Coast Festival to Festival run of seeing it and assessing what needed doing to it before purchase. I knew it was a bit of a 'crock', but I also thought I could cope with most of the issues - silent reeds, x2 sounding, sticky buttons, small leaks, woodwork, lost parts, philharmonic'ish tuning etc. I used a phone bid to keep costs down, then had a detour to collect from Salisbury, to Bridport, then to Verwood on a late summer Friday which was probably the worst bit ! But I enjoy the fettling and 'learning' as much as anything so it didn't bother me too much. The Forum aided and educated me in getting it tuned etc. and Alex is a wealth of practical help. I see these instruments - outside of the metal work, which is beyond me - as fairly artisanal, so not much that can't be fixed if you have the kit and nouse. If I did another I would invest in the 'punches' and make my own valves and pads, which I suspect could be sourced/bought for not much more than the cost of parts to do 'one'. The materials to make them are not hard or expensive to source. I think that the original listing for yours hinted at most of the issues/disappointments, to be honest. It was 'vague' and limited with fairly poor photos. As with the Crabb E/C you posted about, which looked as if it may may have been a Lachenal re-marked by Crabb after resto. work, the Net is a risky place to buy, especially for those of us who are 'inexpert' and wing it a bit! There are bargains about, I paid itro £380 for my wife's virtually unused CC Clover - mainly due, I think to an Ebay listing 'glitch' by the seller. I now live in hope of a 48 / 55 button quality Crane "damaged/repair, in bit's, but all there" !! for sensible money, or one listed in one of those "Old squeezebox" / "Trumph Concretiner" listings that evades the usual suspects regular searches! Hopefully the seller will be honourable if you do decide to return it as contrary to the original description. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Antique-Concertina-/382723643838?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=LpU8CWDUS4AwSKCj7h38nk0fGQM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Mine was, in some ways, probably worse. A bit of time and effort and I love it now. The woodwork is all fairly straight forwards with basic tools. It plays really nicely. Yours will almost certainly be Mahogany under the 'crud' and if re-finished unstained comes up well.