Roger Hare

Might be worth your while considering investing in a copy of Dave Elliot's Concertina Maintenance Manual. Even if you decide not to go down the DIY road, you'll learn a lot about concertinas by reading this excellent book. Order details here... Edit: link to Dave Mallinson's site in the ordering details seems to be incorrect. Correct details further down this thread...

Nice. I found a score (in C) plus the words here.

I bought my first 'tina from Nigel, and 6 years later it's still in great nick. He also restored an instrument which had some 'original' but slightly 'fragile' features which I wanted to retain, and he did a great job!

Heh! It scared the pants off me at 0600 this morning when I looked at what I ended up with! It's not as bad as it looks, though I agree it does look a bit murky at first sight. It's a rendering into ABC of the PDF GC posted (without the tablature(1)). It should be possible for reasonably fluent ABC'ers(2) to (a) ditch the 2nd voice (the bass clef); (b) filter out the voice overlay in the treble clef to get a simple melody. ____________ (1) According to my understanding of the term, there is no 'tablature' in what I posted. It is my stab at a conventional, unadorned, score. (2) I'm no expert! Remember, the point of the ABC is to produce a sensible score (or playback). There are supposed to be folks who can 'sight-read' from an ABC script. Not this pilgrim, I'm afraid! _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Later edit: I deliberately didn't post the PDF generated by that ABC because I didn't want to divert attention away from GC's PDF, but if the complexity of the ABC is 'worrying', I've attached the PDF generated by that ABC. As you can see, it's simply GC's PDF without the tablature... Shche ne vmerla Ukrainy.pdf

Here's a simple ABC version for those who are that way inclined - based on GC's pdf - same reservations apply... X:1 %%MIDI program 23 T:Shche ne vmerla Ukrainy C:Mykhailo Verbytsky M:4/4 L:1/8 Q:120 K:Amin V:1 "C" e3 e edef & c3 c cBcd | g3 f e2 "E7" [Bd]2 & e3 d c2 ^G2 | "Am" c2 e2 "E" B2 e2 & A2 c2 ^G2 G2 | "Am" A3 B "G" c2 d2 & A3 ^G A2 B2 | "C" e3 e edef & c3 c cBcd | g3 f e2 "E7" [Bd]2 & e3 d c2 ^G2 | "Am" c2 e2 "E" B2 e2 & A2 c2 ^G2 G2 | "Am" A6 A2 &A6 A2 || "E" B2 B2 edcB & ^G2 G2 GBAG | "Am" [AA]BcA "E" [^GB]2 [GB]2 & A2 x6 | "Am" c2 c2 "G" d2 d2 & A2 A2 B2 B2 | "C" e4 e2 z2& c4 c2 x2 | "E" B2 B2 edcB & ^G2 G2 GBAG | "Am" [AA]BcA "E" [^GB]2 [GB]2 & A2 x6 | "Am" c2 e2 "E" B2 e2 & A2 c2 ^G2 G2 | "Am" A3 B cdef & A3 ^G ABcd | "C" g3 ^f g2 e2 & e3 ^d e2 c2 | "G" d2 d2 gf"G#"ed & B2 B2 BdcB | "Am" c2 c2 "G" d2 d2 & A2 A2 B2 G2 | "C" e3 d e2 "G7" f2 & c3 B c2 d2 | "C" g3 ^f g2 e2 & e3 ^d e2 c2 | "G" d2 d2 gf"G#"ed & B2 B2 BdcB | "Am" c2 e2 "E" B2 e2 & A2 c2 ^G2 G2 | "Am" A4 A2 z2 & A4 A2 x2 | V:2 clef=bass C,4 C,4 | C,3 D, E,2 E,2 | A,2 A,2 E,2 E,2 | A,,6 G,,2 | C,4 C,4 | C,3 D, E,2 E,2 | A,2 A,2 E,2 E,2 | A,,6 z2 || E,4 E,4 | A,4 E,4 | A,2 A,2 G,2 G,2 | C,4 C,2 z2 | E,4 E,4 | A,4 E,4 | A,4 E,4 | A,4 z4 | C,8 | G,6 ^G,2 | A,2 A,2 G,2 B,2 | C6 G,2 | C,6 C,2 | G,6 ^G,2 | A,4 E,4 | A,4 A,2 z2 |

Thanks very much! That makes it absolutely clear! I'll probably toddle along to my local book shop tomorrow, to see if they can get it for me...

I'm sorry to appear dense, but I'm still not clear whether any of the tunes have Coover-style tablature. Do the '...30 tunes with notation...' have simple button numbers (I'm not familiar with the specific tutors you cite) or tablature? Thanks. The sample page appears to straight notation with bar/measure numbers only, which I prefer. I understand that it's mostly a history book...

Do any of the scores in the book have Coover-style tablature added? The sample page posted earlier does not... Thank you.

After looking at several systems in some detail 4-5 years ago, I elected to use the ABT system cited above. I use it every day (I mean - every day). The books by Mick Bramich use effectively the same system (though it looks different 'on the page'). I would recommend Absolute Beginners Concertina as a good starter book. Note: ABT and Bramich both use the same button numbering system, but it is different to the system used in Gary Coover's books. Both the the ABT and Bramich systems assume C/G as 'default', though they can be easily adapted for G/D (or any other key configuration for that matter). The audio tutorials by Alan Day may also be of interest. They can be found here (hosted by Don Taylor of this parish). Edit: I should also have said that apart from the sound files, this download includes a PDF of (I think) a dozen scores for the tunes featured in the audio files - which directly addresses the OP's original request. __________ If the OP is an ABC user, and cares to send me an ABC file of 'favourite tunes', I will send him those tunes tabbed according to the ABT/Bramich system(s).

If I remember correctly, the 'standard' time for non-permanent BBC audio and film output is three weeks. If I remember correctly, the way it works is; if the service you are using is hosted on a U.K. machine, it all works fine. If your service is hosted on a server outside the U.K, you are stuffed. This is cool if I am at home, but it used to be the case that if I was in the local library, I was unable to look at/listen to stuff because the library internet service was hosted on a machine in the Republic of Ireland...

I lived in Scotland for over 30 years, and Radio Scotland always broadcast a 'Gaelic Service' on Sunday morning. The singing style was completely unfamiliar to me - starting out sounding fairly chaotic as folks joined in, apparently at random, but then blending together as the whole congregation got up to speed; the sound was amazing...

I only just saw this - I agree 101%. I would only change one phrase: "quite effective" would become "astonishingly effective" in my version...

Good news. Thank you. Clearly, I need to look at this whole area in more detail than I have done in the past. Thanks again!

Thanks. That's extremely helpful! The only one of the applications you mention which I use is DropBox. I may well try the approach you suggest. I do have Java-something-or-other installed on one of my machines (it comes automatically with some of the programs I use from portableapps.com, I think).[1] Thanks! ________ [1] So far though, I've been able to do (more or less) what I want using other languages which don't require any hidden infrastructure when I move the (executable) to another machine. This is more attractive to me.

That's fascinating, and answers in some detail a question I've been asking myself for 4- 5years now. Thanks! Unfortunately, it ain't going to be me that tries it: 1) too long in the tooth to learn so much new stuff (the whole boilin, starting with JS...) 2) too much to do, not enough time to do it... 3) if it were to happen, my first choice would be the web-based utility I use for setting up Japanese Chess situations - not very interesting for folks here... 4) miscellaneous other weasel-worded excuses for not getting my *rse in gear... Seriously though, that is really really interesting. It will be nice to see it actually happen, but it really would need someone with more technical knowledge in this area than myself - I can't even spell javerskript... I do have a question: Does the process you outline result in a 'free-standing' executable, or does the machine on which the program would be run have to have Java installed in some form (I couldn't quite work that out from what you said in your post)? Thanks.

[1] Yes, you mention, or hint at, most of the reasons for liking (or not liking) web-based applications. Which side of the fence one sits is a personal choice, I guess - my background means I'm a 'run stuff at home' man. I wasn't aware that some web-based programs can be ported to stand-alone status on a 'home' machine. I'll keep an eye on that... One of the main barriers to doing this is the reluctance of manufacturers to allow their customers to run what software they like on the machines they have bought. My current workhorse machine has only been connected to the internet for 5 minutes when I bought it (6-7 months ago). This was only to turnoff 'secure' mode, so that I could run the software I wanted to, not what Microsoft thought was good for me. Result - completely trouble free usage since Day 1. [2] I'd have to learn lots of new stuff to write web=based programs... I tried Python - no thank you. I thought about Java(Script), but a friend sent me the following, and I decided not to bother...

Happens to me every time I pick up my 'regular' instrument. Must try harder...☹️

Yup! There seem to be relatively few differences between different forms of the 'standard' layouts. Once you factor out the differences between 30- and 40- button instruments, the differences between my Bb/F and your Bb/F are slight. Interesting that my instrument seems to be a bit of a 'sport' - I hadn't clocked that. I have some provenance for the instrument, (it's a 'semi-miniature' ~110-120 years old), but I have nothing which tells me why it's 'different'. These differences seem to be uncontroversial - if I remember correctly, Mick Bramich's tutor books include a blank layout chart so that the eager student can fill in the layout for their own particular instrument - useful, I think?

It's making me a little dizzy too, but at the same time, I can see enough similarities that I wouldn't be put off acquiring a 40-button. I'm going to stick my neck out and say I think the differences might be due to: 1) differences one might get between different makers 30-button layouts, tempered with individual preference; 2) a different 'standard' layout for 40-button instruments? Anyone who knows more about 40-button layouts than me (ie: everyone!) care to comment? I tried the updated version in the club last night, and it's looking better and better! 'Twas a bit slow, but that was due entirely to the lousy internet connection in the boozer. Please keep up the good work! This prompts me to ask a possibly controversial general question. Background first: Luke's web-based program has a distinct advantage over other web-based concertina-related programs I've tried - it works, and it works well! I've had a bad experience with two other concertina-related web-based programs I've tried - basically, they didn't work. One didn't do anything like everything which was 'necessary'; the other got so many things wrong that the documentation was largely about how to fix the errors in the output, after running the program. So I wrote my own stand-alone programs to do the job(s). They run on my computer, and I don't need the internet (which is the way I like it, on the grounds of being 'independent'). So (at last!), my question is: What's the advantage of having programs running in inter-galactic space if you can do the job without going off-planet? I think I know the answer, but I'd like to see what 'the body o' the kirk' thinks... Meantime, thanks Luke, you are doing a great job! Thinks: Somewhere I have an ex-Salvation Army 26-button Ab/Eb. How're you fixed for adding another layout(*)...😎 ______ (*) Just joking! For one thing, it ain't tuned to A=440Hz...

Heh! I agree. I wasn't allowed to operate like that before I retired, but now, I have the choice - and am exercising that choice. The real b*s*a*d is that the code sits in two programs. In one program it gets the line number right, in t'other program, it's off by one. What fun... I hope that Bb/F layout is OK...

I may be OT here, but goodie! That means I can fix the off-by-one line number in my ABC error detection program by simply adding 1 to the line number - even if I can't see why the error occurs in the first place...

OK, leave it with me. Somewhere, I have a layout chart for my Bb/F Lachenal. I will dig it out. Warning: It may have the push/pull semi-circles reversed when compared to your diagram (hysterical reasons - don't ask...). Edit: I struck lucky and found it straight away! The first diagram was created using Dr McCann's keyboard design program, the second I created within a document I used when I first started ~5-6 years ago...

That's extremely neat and well laid out! Nice! Suggestions: 1) Bb/F layout? 2) Work it in reverse - tapping a concertina button highlights the relevant piano key? I dunno if that would be helpful - seems to me it might be... 3) Add sound when you hit a note? Again, would that be useful?

[1] My mistake! Thank you for pointing it out. I had mis-remembered (and not checked) that 'September Song' was from Mahagonny [2] Ah, pity! I was wondering if the 'life + 70' rule might have kicked in here. I now see that idea wouldn't fly in any case as Anderson died only in 1959... Nice recording...

Thank you! Kurt Weill is one of my all-time favourite composers, and for me, the Weill/Brecht partnership is one of the 'killer' associations in 20th century music. I must dig out my 30-40 year old vinyl and give it all a play... Is the music out of copyright does anyone know? Are there dots/ABC available anywhere? A quick search reveals nothing...