4to5to6

I just updated mine... 5-1/2" gold ended piccolo Aeola on top and 11-1/2" double action G bass Aeola on the bottom. One of a kind Wheatstones. Thought it was an interesting photo.

Thanks Alex. Good idea! Stainless steel shim stock. Do you have any photos? How did you attach them?

Thanks Chris. I sent Darlene an email a few days ago but never pursued it. I’ve been a bit distracted. I just received an amazing little gold ended piccolo EC and can’t set it down even though unrestored and in lower A435 French pitch. I’ve been playing Bach’s Little fugue in G minor on it or at least learning it. Simply amazing instrument! So much fun. I’ll pursue the pneumatic leather early next week and let everyone know. Hopefully they will sell me some smaller quantities so I can try making valves in assorted thicknesses to sort out the lower notes of my tenor treble. I was just tweaking my double action Aeola G Bass last night and noticed some valves have one and sometimes two layers of a reinforcement mylar laminated on top of the leather to reinforce them. Brilliant idea. Lower notes sound full rounded, rich and powerful, no pops or blurps at all. I’ll attach a photo hopefully tomorrow. I may try this out on my TT and see if it helps. Thanks again for everyone’s help. .

I emailed TonalEnergy… I will let you know what they say. Here’s an Interesting YouTube video I just found while cruising their website... good demonstration of Just vs. ET. Shameless promotion for their app of course (nice grin) but good demo. I have absolutely no connection with these guys; I just found out about them about a week ago and have been raving about their ap ever since. Just found out they also have an Apple/Windows version as well. .

The reference note can be changed but I usually leave A4 at 440Hz as a reference to tune to other instruments. Interesting… I will email them and see what they say. It is easy to modify the offset table or even create a new User temperament. I learned to count beats when I tuned pianos many years ago but now just use a “computer” tuner. Sad but true. 😭 I will try your suggestions and listen to them. The ap has a function to do this. What would you suggest for the enharmonics Eb/D# and Ab/G# in cents? I have a piccolo English coming today or tomorrow that’s in original C517.3 / A435 Continental pitch that needs to be raised slightly and may just do it in 1/4 comma meantone for fun. Thanks. . I

I also use the Total Energy tuning app. It was the only app that was successfully able to pick up the notes of my G bass. It has become my go to app for all instruments. And, as Alex said, you pick A4=440 Hz as your reference note and the offsets are calculated from there. Here are the offsets for 1/4 comma mean tone:

Chris, I’ve sent Columbia an email requesting small quantities in various thicknesses. Jake, what is the most common type and thicknesses used for valves? I have a piccolo, TT, model 14 and G bass. I am going to hopefully put an order together for Columbia Organ leathers. I’ve never purchased from them before. What is the best leather to use for pads? I should also get some pad leather as well. Thanks for all the help. .

My large Gbass Aeola has the plastic reinforcing strips supporting the larger valves. I think David Robertson did the work. I have seen small wire springs run down the center of the valve supporting the tip. I always thought the plastic or wire was there to keep the valve closed and to prevent the large valve from curling up. I never considered a flutter problem while the valve is open. I wonder if this is what is happening??? Interesting. .

Thanks Theo. I’ll check the valve again. Interesting that the valve would make this sound… Maybe the two reeds / two valves are interacting in some way. I am searching for sources of pneumatic leather in small quantities. I will punch out my own valves.

Thanks Greg. I’ll search around. I was resisting making valves but will make up a bunch of punches. It’s time. Maybe a few of us can go in together and get a few hides. I’m still enjoying that model 14 56B baritone G to G treble I got from you a few years back. Ends were replated and wood work French polished. It looks and sounds amazing. I was told I would most likely find a purple unicorn first but you came through. Thanks again.

I was searching as well and could only see CDL in extra heavy duty. Screen capture below. I never got to the check out level or even to the prices but not sure Columbia Leather is an option as I don’t need 6-10 sq ft typical hide size and need to get a number of thicknesses. I am sure this would be very expensive. Is there another source in smaller quantities? Say about 1 or 2 sq ft of 3 or 4 thicknesses? I own everything from a piccolo to a G bass (leather with mylar supported valves) but mostly play my amboyna tenor treble. The immediate need is for a few low notes in a very very nice golden era tenor treble Aeola that I want to soon sell but need it to be perfect first.

What is a good source for pneumatic leather preferably in North America but anywhere is fine? I have a number of spares on hand but I think it’s time I built some different size valve punches and made a good selection to keep on hand of different sizes and thicknesses. This would help with this type of problem and also help to do voicing. Thanks again 😄 .

Ok. Sounds like the jury is back and it’s the valve that is the culprit. I wish I knew better exactly why the valve acts like this and causes this sound when it looks perfectly fine. I will try a different valve. Thanks. .

I’ve always wondered about this. Thanks. The Pythagorean Comma: As a former piano tuner, temperaments are a fascinating topic although the topic can be very controversial. Why oh why couldn't all the intervals just be pure in all keys? Is this Heaven? I highly recommend the book: How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony: And Why You Should Care by Ross W. Duffin .

Valves look good, flap up and down fine, are not curled… The Instrument hasn’t been played in a while. Maybe things need to just loosen up again.

Please listen to the attached audio files. I’ve come across this a few times over the years and it is still a mystery to me. I get a “blurpy”, raspy sounding low note only on the pull (outside chambered reed). Valves are new maybe 5 years ago and look great still, reed is the perfect fit into the wood…. tongue gaps are fine… What am I missing? Has anyone heard this before? What is the solution? New Recording 1492.m4a New Recording 1490.m4a .

Bass bolt is done! Thanks for all the great advice. Milling attachment for my lathe worked perfectly to cut the slot. I just gently clamped the bolt into a quick change tool holder and had full control in all directions. Photos below. The new bolt is next to a 2-1/8” bass bolt for comparison. I made it a bit longer then the requested 2-1/4” and also increased the length of the threads. It may need to be trimmed but better too long than too short. I’ll send it off next week. If it fits, I’ll make the rest of the set. Threads fit into my Aeolas and a mid 1800s treble as well as a late 1800s Lachenal baritone so 5BA threads on a 0.086 8BA is it. Thanks again for all the awesome advice and help. .

Threads are a success. I ended up redoing the lathe work on the die to line it up better and building a heavier back guide shaft. I used a dial gauge and good bolt to size and center the chasers. First bolt threads were a 100% success! Very clean and even threads. However it took a long time to machine down the brass so I will need another tool similar to the die without threads to size the shaft to 0.086. I think I have some ideas. A three point cutter. The bolt cheese head was a challenge and on nearly the last cut, the bit caught the brass and bent the shaft and the head snapped off. There’s always tomorrow 😄. The good news is that the threads are a success and I was able to try them out on a few concertinas. Ideas to size a 0.086 shaft, 2.25” long with a 0.162” diameter head are welcome. Photos attached. .

The 6 bolts around the perimeter are for adjusting the three chasers and the 6 bolts on the face will then clamp the chasers into place. I’ll use an existing 5BA 0.086 bolt as a starting place with all parts in the lathe for correct center alignment. This should be a good starting place then will tweak it to get it perfect. I’ll find out today. .

Finished tool as planned but no time to set it up and make a bolt today. I’ll get back to it by the weekend… All this for a few 2.25” long Wheatstone bolts for a single action G Bass. It’s worth it, he’s a friend. The hardest part was tapping the tiny M2-0.40 threads for the 6 adjustment screws and the 6 clamping cover screws. All I have is forming taps at this size and they easily break if the pilot hole isn’t perfect. An exercise in patience. The back shaft is held loosely in the tail stock’s Jacobs chuck to keep it in alignment. This shaft is hollow for the first 90mm to not interfere with the threading. .

Just completed the design and generated the first CNC tool path. I will machine the holder from both sides then finish it on the lathe. It will take a few hours of fabricating after machining as a lot of very small holes need to be drilled and taped. The end result will be an adjustable 5BA die that was cut into three pieces so the diameter can be reduced down to 0.086 (8BA). 6 bolts will align and adjust the depth of cut using an existing bolt as a guide and the cover plate will clamp everything into place after it has been set up. The two handles will used to turn the die with the bolt blank held in the locked lathe chuck. The center slider shaft will slide into a tail stock drill chuck loosely held or maybe a pipe ??? on the lathe for alignment so threads will cut straight. I'll upload photos of the finished die holder and some sample end bolts when completed. I'm using AutoCAD to generate the vector files and VCarve to generated the tool paths. My CNC machine is a highly modified Bravo Prodigy with an 800 watt water cooled spindle and my lathe is an EMCO Compact 5 also with many do-it-yourself upgrades. Material will be 6061 aluminum 1" thick and 1.75" wide. This is a quick functional layout only drawing so a lot of the details such as the drilled hole in the slider shaft aren't shown. Everything may change after I have thought about it over night but I think this will get the job done. .

I think these were all manufactured to 86 thou but perhaps the tolerance was + or - one thou, my reason is the original receipt Wheatstone had from the company said "8ba shank 5ba thread or something like that. 5 ba is 43 tpi, perhaps the 44 one was just that the lathe was a bit worn or something, it seems a bit weird to change the spec by 1 tpi when actually the 43 or 44 tpi bolt would be most likely interchangeable if the bellows frame nut is only 80 thou thick. Steve Dickinson sells these bolts but I'm not sure what lengths he has. Thanks for confirming the specs Jake. Much, much, much appreciated!!! My original post was to enquire if this special die (0.086” 43TPI, 5BA/8BA) was still available. It sounds like I will have to custom make my own. All the discussion and advice was greatly appreciated. .

I just found these: Uxcell M2.5 X 40mm 304 Stainless Steel Crosshead Phillips Round Head Screws Bolt - 60pcs - $10.91 USD https://www.harfington.com/products/p-1102106 Is 60mm long possible? Almost there 😊 Reference: C. 1900 hex bass - 0.0855, 44tpi, 2.218“ (56.4mm) 1926 Amboyna TT Aeola - 0.0850 5BA thread, 1.240” (31.5mm) 1927 ME TT Aeola - 0.0860 5BA thread, 1.162“ (29.5mm) .

I have yet to find a source for 3-48 bolts and M2.5 x 30, etc. bolts over 1” (25mm) preferably in North America as alternate end bolts. Cheese, fillister or binder head with a slot drive preferred. I am open to Whitworth and BA as well even in a finer thread than 43tpi. Custom made bolts are very expensive so would then have to make my own if not available. It would be awesome to get these off the shelf to save time and money. On this topic… I also have a need for the small 3/8” screws that hold rolled metal end plates on from the inside. I’ll attach a photo. And of course the long thin English thumb strap and pinky rest screws… these also are also impossible to find new. Does anyone know of a source for brand new bolts and screws like these?

A source for new bolts would be appreciated. Preferable a North American source but anywhere is fine. C. 1900 bass - 0.0855, 44tpi, 2.218“ 1926 Amboyna TT - 0.0850 5BA, 1.240” 1927 ME TT - 0.0860 5BA, 1.162“ Thanks.