Best Leather For Gussets?

[malcolmbebb]

Can anyone suggest the most suitable leather for gussets? I am thinking principally concertinas, although I suspect the same would hold true of melodeons/accordions.

 

Thanks,

 

Malcolm

[Wolf Molkentin]

kangaroo, goat?

[Geoff Wooff]

Easter Bunny (for the day that's in it) .

 

No, serriously, it would be ideal if Gusset leather was chosen for its 'airtight' qualities, as much as its durability in a flexing situation. This can reflect on the tanning process and most Impermeable tanning would be intended to provide some degree of water tightness. Some animals have large pores in their skin (pigs and humans) whilst others do not. Dogs and Kangaroos loose heat through their mouths by panting and do not sweat to control temperature so their hides are naturally much more airtight.

 

I'm sure it would not go down well for a Concertina maker to advertise " Strong and supple Bellows made from the finnest Geyhound skin for the faster player".

Edited April 19, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[Lester Bailey]

Can anyone suggest the most suitable leather for gussets? I am thinking principally concertinas, although I suspect the same would hold true of melodeons/accordions.

 

Thanks,

 

Malcolm

For melodeons I use everyone's favourite supplier

[malcolmbebb]

For melodeons I use everyone's favourite supplier

 

And a fine upstanding fellow he is indeed.

 

However, I was thinking more in terms of getting a skin and making my own.

[Lester Bailey]

However, I was thinking more in terms of getting a skin and making my own.

 

Mug the nearest bodhran player

[malcolmbebb]

Nah. You don't want thick skin for gussets.

[sqzbxr]

Not sure that Lester was referring to gusset leather...

[DDF]

Malcolm,As you are in Dorset you probably are already familiar with Pittards in Yeovil(on the road in from Sherborne/Penn mill).They have have a factory shop with a huge selection and very reasonable prices.I did a job a few years back for which I used some lovely thin flexible goat skins from them.When I last visited they had a better selection in the shop than on line,regards David.

 

http://www.pittardsleather.co.uk/leather-skins-amp-leather-hides/c29

[malcolmbebb]

Thanks David, good point.

 

I'd bought on-line from them, but I will pay the shop a visit when I'm next down that way.

[Terry McGee]

Here's a way of testing materials for leakage. It also goes a little way into the question of doping bellows materials to improve air-tightness.

 

http://www.fonema.se/leakmetr/leakmeter1.html

[Geoff Wooff]

Funny how some people have to find the most complex way of doing things, as if to impress people. I find the simplest way to test the airtightness of a piece of leather is to suck it ! Try drawing air through a hide by putting your lips to it and sucking hard. I've used this method for many years to select hides for making Bagpipe bags

...

When good airtight hides are used it is possible to fully inflate the finished bag by blowing into its neck and close off the opening then sit on the bag for five minutes without any deflation... This is airtight.

[Greg Jowaisas]

 

...sit on the bag for five minutes...

DO NOT try this to test a concertina!

 

BTW sheepskin can make excellent gussets (and valleys). Goat for the ribs and end runs.

 

Greg

Edited April 21, 2014 by Greg Jowaisas

[Terry McGee]

Funny how some people have to find the most complex way of doing things, as if to impress people. I find the simplest way to test the airtightness of a piece of leather is to suck it ! Try drawing air through a hide by putting your lips to it and sucking hard. I've used this method for many years to select hides for making Bagpipe bags

...

When good airtight hides are used it is possible to fully inflate the finished bag by blowing into its neck and close off the opening then sit on the bag for five minutes without any deflation... This is airtight.

 

Heh heh, sparing no expense - two softdrink bottles and a bit of hose. I thought it was a good reminder that there is usually a way to employ first principles to test things cheaply. And I can imagine, if you were facing a project like restoring a massive theatre organ, you would want to be pretty confident that your materials were up to scratch.

 

Interesting too, the idea of impregnating the leather with silicone rubber diluted in benzene. Hope the smell wears off quickly!

 

Terry

[Terry McGee]

Ah, that sparked another thought. Surely the Magnehelic flute leakage detector has something to offer in this regard? It blows, rather than sucks, but that should be no disadvantage. Its job is to detect leaks around things, rather than through things, but properly applied that shouldn't present a problem either.

 

Applying the face of the rubber bung on the end of the tube to various leathers produced very clear results. (I held a cylinder of similar dimensions to the bung on the other side of the leather to allow air flow through the cylinder.) My welding gloves are seen as perfectly transparent, and certainly fail Geoff's suck test. Blurk, sucking welding gloves sure has its downsides! A shiny polished leather seems pretty much (but not entirely!) airtight - it registered around .5 on the scale of 0-8. I wasn't convinced about the suck test here.

 

The tester easily differentiated between the shiny side and furry sides of leather. On the furry side, leakage occurs across the face of the leather, even though pushing the soft rubber bung very firmly against it.

 

Incidentally, I've found you can't always rely on others to do your testing. I've had a few situations over the years where I couldn't achieve the kind of leakage in flute padding that I require. After much muttering and grumbling, I found that the leakage was through the pad surface of some of the pads. Dissecting the pad and viewing the leather under the microscope, you could clearly see light through the hair holes.

 

Terry

[Geoff Wooff]

I think it somewhat strange that concertina makers still use quite porous materials in situations where a good degree of airtightness is a criteria. My job involves the construction of an instrument with many potential leak points and as the air supply and pressure is created by player effort it is essential to achieve maximum efficiency by minimum air loss.

 

I can understand that the choice of Bellows gusset material has as much to do with continued good flexibility over extended periods as it does with ultimate air retention but I do wonder that if the concertina was being designed today would the use of Chamois as a gasket material still be chosen? Chamois is very porous and I'm sure I would be looking at 'closed cell foam' or a leather with better sealing qualities for this application. But then perhaps the air pressure created Inside a Concertina is insufficent to warrant any further improvements.

[Terry McGee]

Yeah, the same strikes me about the things used to hold sections of flutes together - string, cork, etc. All of them have easily defined weaknesses, but no-one seems to have come up with anything better.

 

I imagine ET reporting back about the weird practices encountered in our orchestras - the skins, guts, horns and even teeth of a range of animals; timbers, barks and resins from certain plants but not others, reeds, fish bladders, whale spermaceti (not so commonly used today), etc, etc. No wonder we don't seem to be attracting visitors.

 

The concertina gasket is a challenging application. If you did go to closed cell foam, it would probably require too much force and you'd need as many bolts as a car sump!

 

Terry

[Geoff Wooff]

Well Terry,

I have been using Closed Cell Foam for making the key pads on the Pipes these last 25 years.... and it has revolutionised air tightness... or at least the ability to easily obtain same.

 

I'd suggest even less pressure would be needed on Concertina end bolts if this stuff was used.... yes yes I know it is not traditional and begger the thought as it is used on Accordions (sorry for the Blasphemy).......These foam materials can be obtained in a wide variety of densities (squashy-nesses) and can automatically compensate for malalignments or uneven surfaces.

 

Geoff.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Geoff Wooff