Glued-in reedpans

[SteveS]

Just when you think you've seen it all.....

 

I've recently acquired an EC for restoration - appears as though the previous owner may have (in an attempt to seal the box presumably) glued in the reedpans.

Try as I might, I cant get the reed pans out.

Looks to me like glue (and it appears as though it's not water soluble) has been smeared around the chamois and then the reedpans refitted.

 

Any ideas on how I might get the reedpans out?

 

I've thought about running a sharp thin blade around the chamois between the bellows frames and each reedpan, and separating the chamois from the wood of the bellows frames. This may work provided that the reedpans arent also glued to the support blocks - but then the old bone glue is very brittle and crystalised so may not offer too much resistance when it comes to pulling out the reedpans. I may then be able to pull out the reedpans complete with the old chamois (which would have been replaced anyway as part of the restoration work).

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Steve

[SteveS]

I'll also try (very sparingly!) various solvents - such as methylated spirits, white spirit, naptha, lighter fuel - to see if the glue will loosen.

Would help if I knew what type of glue had been used.

It's clear and hard (my first thought was waterproof PVA).

[Theo]

Any other suggestions?

 

You may have already tried this but...

 

Reedpans have a large hole in the centre, where you usually use a finger to pull out the pan. Find a substantial piece of wood that will easily pass through the hole - a hammer handle works well. Then hold the wood vertical, and insert it through the hole in the reedpan. You can then guide the end of the wood towards the edge of the reedpan and by carefully using your weight to lean on the bellows frame you can apply force to the region nearest to the glue, and more importantly you can easily control how much force you apply. Do a little at a time, moving all round the edge of the pan. Keep an eye on the thin vertical cell dividers as these are the parts most likely to suffer damage.

 

I've not used this on reedpans that were heavily glued in, but it can work where they are much too tight to pull out with a finger.

[ragtimer]

I've thought about running a sharp thin blade around the chamois between the bellows frames and each reedpan, and separating the chamois from the wood of the bellows frames. This may work provided that the reedpans arent also glued to the support blocks - but then the old bone glue is very brittle and crystalised so may not offer too much resistance when it comes to pulling out the reedpans. I may then be able to pull out the reedpans complete with the old chamois (which would have been replaced anyway as part of the restoration work).

This is what we do when splitting apart various components of player pianos and crank organs (monkey organs).

Be thankful that the otherwise unspeakable "repairer" left the chamois layer in place, as that will make splitting it with a putty knife much easier.

 

Don't use too sharp a blad on the putty knife -- too sharp will dig into the wood on one side or the other and mess it up, while a duller blade will skip over the wood surfaces and remain between them in the chamois, giving a neat separation. The putty knife as it comes from the store is about right.

 

Do pray that he used bone or hide glue, and not modern stuff like Elmer's or PVC. Bone/hide glue can be softened with water or heat, and is easy to sand off afterwards. Modern glues are a curse for re-rebuilding a box of any kind.

Good luck -- Mike K.

Edited August 8, 2009 by ragtimer

[SteveS]

This is what we do when splitting apart various components of player pianos and crank organs (monkey organs).

Be thankful that the otherwise unspeakable "repairer" left the chamois layer in place, as that will make splitting it with a putty knife much easier.

 

Don't use too sharp a blad on the putty knife -- too sharp will dig into the wood on one side or the other and mess it up, while a duller blade will skip over the wood surfaces and remain between them in the chamois, giving a neat separation. The putty knife as it comes from the store is about right.

 

Do pray that he used bone or hide glue, and not modern stuff like Elmer's or PVC. Bone/hide glue can be softened with water or heat, and is easy to sand off afterwards. Modern glues are a curse for re-rebuilding a box of any kind.

Good luck -- Mike K.

 

Mike

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

The original chamois is still in place - this should have been fixed to the bellows frame with bone/hide glue.

 

The glue holding in the reedpans is between the outer/fluffy face of the chamois and the wood of the reedpans. It appears to be modern glue - my hunch is waterproof PVA.

 

I can use the idea of cutting away the edge of the chamois around the edge of the bellows frame, and then wedge in a blade (like your idea of a putty knife or broad blade) between the chamois and the wood of the bellows frame. The original bone/hide glue may be brittle, given that most of the other glue on this box I've seen appears to be crystaline, then the chamois should come away relatively easily.

 

Steve

[Chris Ghent]

Heat the slightly dull knife to just below a temp whick would scorch the wood and move it slow, reheating often. I would start with one of those blades which you can extend and break off in small sements. Not for its disposability but because they are very thin and you will be able to use guiding force near the concertina rather than at the end of a longer shaft and handle. Favour the reedpan, nicks under the chamois will be easily fixed and covered.

 

Chris

[d.elliott]

Just when you think you've seen it all.....

 

I've recently acquired an EC for restoration - appears as though the previous owner may have (in an attempt to seal the box presumably) glued in the reedpans.

Try as I might, I cant get the reed pans out.

Looks to me like glue (and it appears as though it's not water soluble) has been smeared around the chamois and then the reedpans refitted.

 

Any ideas on how I might get the reedpans out?

 

I've thought about running a sharp thin blade around the chamois between the bellows frames and each reedpan, and separating the chamois from the wood of the bellows frames. This may work provided that the reedpans arent also glued to the support blocks - but then the old bone glue is very brittle and crystalised so may not offer too much resistance when it comes to pulling out the reedpans. I may then be able to pull out the reedpans complete with the old chamois (which would have been replaced anyway as part of the restoration work).

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Steve

 

 

Steve

 

you have not commented on the state of the bellows, bellows are a consummable- replaceable item. You would find it easier to sacrifice the bellows, and work from inside the instrument. If necessary you can always remove the bellows core by splitting off the end binding, and re-fitting them afterwords. It is better than scrapping off the entire instument by messing up the reedpans.

 

Dave

[SteveS]

Steve

 

you have not commented on the state of the bellows, bellows are a consummable- replaceable item. You would find it easier to sacrifice the bellows, and work from inside the instrument. If necessary you can always remove the bellows core by splitting off the end binding, and re-fitting them afterwords. It is better than scrapping off the entire instument by messing up the reedpans.

 

Dave

 

Dave

 

Thanks for the good suggestion.

The bellows are in reasonable condition, so I'd lile to preserve them. The leather runs around the bellows frames on each end are however, a little shabby in places. It is a good option to remove these end runs and then replace.

 

Steve

[d.elliott]

Steve

 

you have not commented on the state of the bellows, bellows are a consummable- replaceable item. You would find it easier to sacrifice the bellows, and work from inside the instrument. If necessary you can always remove the bellows core by splitting off the end binding, and re-fitting them afterwords. It is better than scrapping off the entire instument by messing up the reedpans.

 

Dave

 

Dave

 

Thanks for the good suggestion.

The bellows are in reasonable condition, so I'd lile to preserve them. The leather runs around the bellows frames on each end are however, a little shabby in places. It is a good option to remove these end runs and then replace.

 

Steve

 

I would talk to David Leese, order endwraps and fabric tape, he can also send the CD, or at least the relevant parts of it.

 

Dave

[SteveS]

Just when you think you've seen it all.....

 

I've recently acquired an EC for restoration - appears as though the previous owner may have (in an attempt to seal the box presumably) glued in the reedpans.

Try as I might, I cant get the reed pans out.

Looks to me like glue (and it appears as though it's not water soluble) has been smeared around the chamois and then the reedpans refitted.

 

Any ideas on how I might get the reedpans out?

 

I've thought about running a sharp thin blade around the chamois between the bellows frames and each reedpan, and separating the chamois from the wood of the bellows frames. This may work provided that the reedpans arent also glued to the support blocks - but then the old bone glue is very brittle and crystalised so may not offer too much resistance when it comes to pulling out the reedpans. I may then be able to pull out the reedpans complete with the old chamois (which would have been replaced anyway as part of the restoration work).

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Steve

 

I eventually resolved this and got the reedpans out.

 

This is what I did:

- cut around the chamois and passed a sharp blade between the chamois and the bellows frame

- passed the wooden shaft of a hammer through the hole in the reedpan on the opposite side

- gently tapped the hammer until the reedpan came out

 

After I'd removed the reedpans I assessed the situation:

- glue had been spread around the fluffy side of the chamois

- card had been placed under the chamois to build out any gaps that may have existed between bellows frame and reedpan

- the reedpans had then be jammed in so tightly that they were impossible to remove via the conventional method

 

The chamois came away with the reedpans - appears as though since they were jammed in so tighly that the glued fluffy surface had merged with age with the wood of the reedpans. Chamois remnants were removed from the reedpans through gentle scraping.

Edited December 11, 2011 by SteveS