Interesting 56 English on EBay # 250466064643

[Jack Bradshaw]

An English w/ no name but riveted action w/ round rods....

[Stephen Chambers]

An English w/ no name but riveted action w/ round rods....

 

That one is a George Jones - it would remind me of the JoJo Webb instrument that I have:

 

 

[m3838]

An English w/ no name but riveted action w/ round rods....

 

That one is a George Jones - it would remind me of the JoJo Webb instrument that I have:

 

 

 

Is it still a desireable instrument with such rusty reeds? One can soak them in kerosene, scribe off with wooden stick etc. Generally speaking it's possible to get much of the rust off. But it will need major retuning, obviously. Does it make sense for either collector or player to aquire such a concertina? I am asking because I tried to sell mine, in fantastically better condition, but with fewer reeds and odd (perhaps) tuning, and it failed.

[Stephen Chambers]

One can soak [rusty reeds] in kerosene, scribe off with wooden stick etc.

I'd find the judicious use of a saw file (which I use for tuning) to be much more effective for removing surface rust.

 

Generally speaking it's possible to get much of the rust off. But it will need major retuning, obviously. Does it make sense for either collector or player to aquire such a concertina?

Most concertinas that come "from source" need major retuning anyway, seeing that virtually all of them were originally tuned to pitches that are no longer in use, whilst a few badly rusted reeds can always be replaced.

 

But it is just about impossible to be sure how bad they are, simply from looking at photos - the only real test is to give the reed a good, hard "twang" and if it breaks, then it needed replacing anyway!

 

I am asking because I tried to sell mine, in fantastically better condition, but with fewer reeds and odd (perhaps) tuning, and it failed.

That may be because it's a "band" instrument, with a limited range and in a "transposing" key, which isn't really what most people are looking for.

It looks like the examples in photos of the Oldham Concertina Band - indeed, maybe it is one of them?

Edited July 17, 2009 by Stephen Chambers

[m3838]

It looks like the examples in photos of the Oldham Concertina Band - indeed, maybe it is one of them?

 

Interesting. Thanks. If I'll relist mine, I'll point at these pictures. It does look like those examples, indeed.

[Theo]

One can soak [rusty reeds] in kerosene, scribe off with wooden stick etc.

I'd find the judicious use of a saw file (which I use for tuning) to be much more effective for removing surface rust.

 

I like to use one of these with a coarse grit to remove rust before using the file. Rust is quite abrasive, and not good for files.

[Stephen Chambers]

One can soak [rusty reeds] in kerosene, scribe off with wooden stick etc.

I'd find the judicious use of a saw file (which I use for tuning) to be much more effective for removing surface rust.

I like to use one of these with a coarse grit to remove rust before using the file. Rust is quite abrasive, and not good for files.

Oh, I wouldn't use a new file for that job, it'd be a used one. I save my newest files for fine-tuning, and especially if it's a Jeffries - they wear out files faster than anything...

[Daniel Hersh]

These are really pretty concertinas. Stephen, how are the tone and response on yours, compared to other Jones instruments or to other makes from the same era?

 

An English w/ no name but riveted action w/ round rods....

That one is a George Jones - it would remind me of the JoJo Webb instrument that I have:

[Stephen Chambers]

These are really pretty concertinas. Stephen, how are the tone and response on yours, compared to other Jones instruments or to other makes from the same era?

Daniel,

 

You can be sure that these would have been considered the most modern concertinas of professional quality, and state-of-the-art for Jones, at the time they were made. He was especially proud to have made the ones for (his pupils) the Webb brothers, noting in his memoir that "I received an order from the Messrs. Bros. Webb for two 56 keyed with metal tops - a great success and played all over the provinces, continent, and parts of America..."

 

Indeed, the Webbs' instruments were praised as "Wheatstones of the best sort" in 1892, by no less a music critic than George Bernard Shaw (prompting an indignant response from Jones, threatening to sue!) - but I wouldn't swap a decent Wheatstone for one of them!

 

Mind you, "around 1930 ... the Bros. Butler" (Frank Butler and his brother - grandsons of George Jones) were given "The two instruments made for Bros. Webb" (along with many of their props, after they retired) and "By 1960 Mr. Crabb reported that it was impossible to retune them" - which would seem to fit in with the treble (that I now have) having been bought off Tommy Williams in 1968, since I know he used to get scrap concertinas off Crabb's. I bought it early last year, from the son of the then purchaser, but I haven't put it into playing order yet.

 

The 56-key on eBay has some small differences, like the pivots for the levers (visible in photos since added to the listing) are not typical, it has longer, and narrower reeds (which are probably better than the broad ones in JoJo's!), and it has extra fretwork details in the corners of the ends - instead of S-cutouts in the sides, also it doesn't have a Jones serial number, but lots of other things about it convince me that both instruments came out of the same workshop. Maybe it was made for someone else to sell?

Edited July 25, 2009 by Stephen Chambers