why the standards are low in concertinas

[david_boveri]

i am making this in reply to the comment here, as well as those relevant afterwards.

 

I have always searched to find concertina players, whose professionalism was on the level what most other instrumentalists have reached. It's been discussed here before. I have an impression, that response of concertina as instrument, it's dynamic range , combination of weight and shape, ergonomics, cost and production design prohibits it from becoming a full fledged instrument.

 

you are making a presumptive conclusion of causality here--a classic chicken and the egg problem. you assume that because there are no good players, that it is the instruments fault. now, i mostly listen to anglo, so i will keep my discussion to that particular instrument.

 

first and foremost i would like to agree with you in that in general the technical proficiency of concertina players is far below that of other instruments. there are a couple players who i think have very good control of their instruments, but not many. most players i have heard seem to not have very good control of their instruments at all. most players do not have any concept of tone control on the concertina--they play, they play nicely, but many do not vary the dynamics, never mind the tone.

 

i have never even HEARD of anyone playing a convincing chromatic scale on the anglo concertina in the classical idea of the term. yet... all the notes are there. the fingering is no more gut-wrenching than the third octave of the flute (much less, actually), yet no one can do it. you cant blame the concertina for this, though most people would. it is not a flaw in design or construction that no one can play quick, fluttering chromatic scales on the anglo concertina.

 

in fact... i constantly find players trying to avoid bellows changes because they are too difficult. difficult how? i remember when i started, i too did the same thing. i was limited by my lack of experience. anyone who has trouble with them just has bad bellows control. plain and simple. yeah... on a stagi it takes some good muscle to do it, but i know people with top-notch instruments who have trouble changing the bellows direction. we cannot blame the instrument for this.

 

when someone in irish circles wants to play with a flat set of pipes, they buy a new concertina. ok, i get this. flat pitch concertinas do sound nice, and concertinas have always been made in different keys for different tastes. however... all the notes are there. when i first started, i thought that the concertina made no sense, and i could not even imagine how people could play it at full speed in a session in normal keys, never mind other keys. right now i am working on playing the concertina in other keys. i find that playing irish music in Bb is not so difficult, actually. nor is it difficult in Eb. why doesnt anyone else do this? i dont know. i guess it's because they think it's too hard. it will take me a while to get it up to speed, sure, but not more time than it took me to get up to speed in the first place in more comfortable keys. so, you cant blame the concertina for people not playing in other keys, either.

 

there are countless other aspects of concertina playing which does not match the same virtuosity of other instruments, but again... i blame the players. so many people advocate loose straps on the anglo. why? they say so they can "reach all the buttons." usually the people who say this have much larger hands than i do. the looser the straps, the harder it is to control the bellows. i have tried playing instruments with loose straps and good bellows control, and i had to grip so hard with my thumbs to tighten the straps (which many recommend) that my thumbs went numb for a couple days. if you look at the concertina as an energy system, loose straps does not make sense. you push on an anglo, your palms push against the hand rest. you pull, and the back of your hand pushes against the strap. so, when you go in, then out, your hand must go from pushing the hand rest to pushing against the hand strap. if you have a large gap in the straps, then you cannot instantly go from one method of applying force to the other. no matter what you do to compensate, you will never have an EFFICIENT energy system, which means you will never have as much control as you could. heck... i used to be able to play the anglo concertina without any hand straps at all! i practiced it just to see if it was possible. as a listener, you wouldnt hear the difference. but it was not worth my time and my energy, and i did not have a lot of control, either, though i could still do the same chords and the same cranns and whatnots.

 

so much of the technique i see in playing today is based on doing what is easiest in the short term. there is not enough competition today to knock you out of contending for not having paganini-like technique. if you make good music, people will listen to you. if you are a violinist in the classical world, no one will pay any attention to you if you are out of tune. i had a classical teacher for flute who insisted even 1 cent + or - was too much. no one is that demanding in folk music.

Edited May 28, 2009 by david_boveri

[david_boveri]

if there was a large contingent of highly virtuosic (across many genres) anglo players, here are things that i think they would emphasize, which are not being strongly emphasized as far as i have seen.

 

note: i want to emphasize with this list that a.) it is not a full exposition, and b.) less control does not mean lower quality music. it just means less control. i'd rather listen to kitty hayes than myself any day.

 

bellows control

1. keep your bellows as straight as you can while maintaining minimal lateral movement. this may or may not result in a slight angle to your pull to act as a counter pressure to prevent lateral movement. fanning is not an option as far as good bellows control goes. sorry.

 

2. bellows off the knee. putting bellows on the knee does actually help with tone and control, but only to a point.. it does prevent lateral movement, and makes it easier to make a confident tone. however, you do not have much control over the sound, and sound opens up when you get the bellows off the knee. so again... control is the key word.

 

3. learn to play standing up. brian peter's is an awesome example of this. i asked him how he does it, and he broke down his basic approach. this has had a huge impact on my bellows control. being able to support your own concertina helps you control tone. using your knee to hold the weight of your concertina causes your bellows to be limp and have bad backpressure. however, using your knee as a STABILIZER increases control, or at least makes it easier (which is a good thing).

 

 

4. learn the bellows' support characteristics for every note. this one is a very complex idea (including lifting up, pushing into your knee, etc), and i dont feel i can discuss it now in brief. all i will say is that every note has different tendencies, based on the response of the reed, and based on where it is on the instrument. your hands will tend to collapse in different ways pressing different buttons, and you must learn to prevent this. i see so many players whose bellows wildly flail every time they change directions, and this is why. just as violin players must adjust their pressure and movement for different areas of the bow, you must adjust your stabilizer muscles depending on where each note is on the instrument.

 

 

 

5. have tight straps. as stated above, the concertina is an energy system, wherein pressure is applied against two points: hand straps and palm rests. to change bellows directions, you must change the point where energy is applied. imagine the energy system as flowing in a straight line from. to put a large gap in the straps means there is a gap in energy. to compensate for this by using your thumbs you are thus providing less direct energy.

 

6. control of the bellows comes from your upper body (pectorals and deltoids), not from your wrists!

 

fingering

 

7. place your fingers straight down on the buttons, using finger tips and not pads. this causes more accurate placement, strengthens the fingers, and makes a more efficient energy system.

 

8. anticipate finger movement. have every finger ready as soon as possible to hit each note.

 

8.b keep fingers as close as possible to each note.

 

9. learn all 12 major minor scales, across the full range. learn all possible fingerings

 

10. be able to play competently in every key, adjusting the setting of the tune for limitations.

 

tone

11. practice steady tone. be able to pull in and out all the way at one dynamic, steady tone with no change in tone color. repeat for every possible amplitude.

 

12. be able to play long notes, depressing and releasing the air button, without any noticeable change in volume or tone. (thanks jodie for that one!)

 

13. learn how each note starts and stops. practice hovering right at the point where each note resonates or does not sound.

 

14. practice dynamic control over every note, with and without varying degrees of air button down.

Edited May 28, 2009 by david_boveri

[david_boveri]

here i would like to cite those who have emphasized anything from the above list:

 

1. noel hill.

 

2. myself. i was taught to put one end on the knee by noel hill. as a good student, i ignored him and only did it when i noticed the above stated reason.

 

3. myself. i learned how to play from brian peters, but figured out how to integrate this into my sitting playing myself. i figured this out by watching the natural lateral movement of my arms. also, watching noel hill play, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ3Lt6CaG48 , you can notice he lifts it up. he also said once he lifts it up to change tone. however, if you pay close attention, his concertina seems to be moving constantly up and down minutely, even when he is not explicitly lifting the concertina.

 

4. myself.

 

5. noel hill told me to tighten my straps. i figured out why it was important by trying out different tightness. i have very small hands and can reach every buttons. it took a lot of work to be able to reach all the buttons with tight straps, but it is very possible, and is now very easy. as i said above... many people just have loose straps because it is easier in the short term. it does not make for better control.

 

6. noel hill taught me this. i also learned this by isolating arm movement while not holding a concertina, by pressing against things moving outwards and pressing my hands together. i used door frames, as well as other peoples hands pushing against mine. this also influenced my idea of the concertina as an energy system. by looking at how the energy system fluctuates without the concertina, it made no sense to add an extra energy point to the system.

 

7. myself. i used to collapse my fingers. i found it worked very well, but that it did not allow for accuracy, and it actually hurt tone control. then i used to press my fingertips on the edge of the buttons. this caused a very strident tone, but made it difficult to play quietly and caused undue stress on my tendons. since i have made the switch to putting my finger tips on the center of the buttons, i have had more tone control and dynamic control, by relying less on my finger pressure and more on my arms to generate power in the energy system--i credit jodie kruskal for emphasizing that power should never come from your fingers, but from your arms. also this causes a lighter touch, and makes it easier to play quicker.

 

8. myself. once i switched to using my fingertips in the middle of the buttons, instead of using the pad of my finger, i started missing notes more often. i scuffed up my brand new instrument with my nails by missing the notes--i would hit the buttons with my pads, and scrap the instrument with my nails. i thought this was due to finger strength, but 4 days ago i noticed it was due to the fact that my fingers were too far away to accurately hit them in time. i realized that by both getting my fingers closer to the buttons, and by setting up each finger ahead of time, i never missed notes. also, my touch was lighter, more accurate, and my tone more controllable (cf. 7 on tone control and finger placement). rather than keeping my fingers wherever they are, i now set up each note as early as possible for the next button it will hit. here is an exercise i am working on for developing finger placement for the scotsman over the border:

 

(please note that finger markings are not in the diagram).

 

8.b wally carroll. wally told me a couple years ago to put my fingers closer. i didnt listen. cf. 8 above for why i put my fingers closer now.

 

9. common sense.

 

10. ditto

 

11. me. you need full control to... well... have full control. violin players learn how to control their bows at every point of extension. flute players do long tones. the bellows act differently full compressed compared to fully extended. when you fully compress, they will try to expand, but fully extended, they will try to contract. how you get the same exact tone is very different, then, depending on how far your bellow are extended. when you are all the way extended, you may actually have to PULL slightly to play a push note pianissimo

 

12. i have heard jodie talk about this several times. it's a good idea!

 

13. myself. noel hill once told me to add more space between the notes. i took that to mean "learn how each note sounds when you let it taper off." i know that is not what he meant; i'm weird like that. james kelly told me notes should be round, and not square--i find that knowing how to gently ease in and out of notes helps you to add interesting shapes to your notes. it helps you control the shape of notes in the middle of the notes ,as well. noel hill also speaks of the fact that notes need to have shape in order to add lift to your music.

 

14. classical music. that is a HUGE thing in classical music. to be able to play a long note and crescendo/decrescendo is very important in learning volume control, a key part of musical expression.

Edited May 28, 2009 by david_boveri

[tombilly]

Sorry, think I'd just prefer to go play a few tunes

[david_boveri]

Sorry, think I'd just prefer to go play a few tunes

 

i'll join you.

Edited May 28, 2009 by david_boveri

[david_boveri]

before anyone says anything: i have never written them up as a list before, so it is not be properly exclusive or concise. there are of course other things i am working or have on the backburner to work on in the future which i did not include. rhythm is one of them. musicality is another. i think that rhythm and musicality are both more important than anything else on that list, and that one would do better to work on just these two things rather than anything else on my list.

 

however, the point is not on what i think is most important, or what i am necessarily working on right now, but a brief snippet of the sort of systematic methodology which i do not think even exists in the concertina world today. this is why i think there are not the sort of players m3838 and i agree both are evident on other instruments. i believe that it is not the inherent qualities of the concertina as he does, but rather that the lack of competition and virtuosic players has prevented any sort of systematic school of thought from ever developing.

 

as a final disclaimer, i would like to note that my attempt to make a more systematic methodology is so that i can better refine my own technique, and not because i am any sort of master. i am trying to make a sort of roadmap for myself to follow, which exists for all the more popular instruments, if not through treatises but through master classes and passed on knowledge. however, i do stand behind my 14 points each individually (though NOT as a definitive list), as i have spent a lot of time developing each idea, time which i know i should have been developing my sense of rhythm, which is SEVERELY lacking.

[tombilly]

Well - I'll go along with your no.13. I know one of my weaknesses is being a bit lazy when I have to play the same note in succession. i.e. I'm a bit inclined to mush them together rather than articulate separately or separate cleanly with a cut. Was listening to the Mrs Crotty CD the other day and she sure plays them cleanly.

[Doug Barr]

I think I better go practice Bye

[Mark Evans]

I think I better go practice Bye

 

Hmm, I think I'll have a little Bushmills Blackbush with me coffee and think about practice.

 

David, Misha's grinning right now in pre-dawn San Francisco. He loves to stir the cauldron. There's nought but frustration down this slippery path...

 

It will be fun to watch.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Mark Evans

[Peter]

So what if "standards" are not the same as other instruments?

Are you having fun playing the 'tina?

 

Because that's all that matters.

 

/not trying to be a troll, just stating my opinion.

//heading back to lurkerdom

[hjcjones]

I suspect that the reason there are so few good players is because there is no agreed methodology or approach to playing, along with a shortage of teachers. Speaking for myself, I learned to play more or less in isolation, and without even a printed tutor work from. I picked up tips from other players from time to time (I literally sat at the feet of John Kirkpatrick) or went to the occasional workshop, but mostly I made it up as I went along. I think that was typical of most players then, and judging from comments frequently made on here, it's not much different today.

 

It's true there are more summer schools, squeeze-ins and workshops than there ever used to be. But these are occasional events, and there are probably still comparatively few players who have the luxury of regular lessons from a teacher who himself understands the instrument in depth.

[Mark Evans]

I suspect that the reason there are so few good players is because there is no agreed methodology or approach to playing, along with a shortage of teachers.

 

You made the hair on me neck raise up, even with the Bushmills under the hood.

 

I know there are a lot of wonderful players out there and I've heard a number of them. More teachers? God forbid! I'll not begrudge someone who's got the teacher-guru thing going for them, a blessing on your home...but cleaving to a "teacher" can be a trap if you loose a sense of yourself.

 

The Wizards of the Plectral Arts and I were having a discussion after session this week (maybe alittle drunk). Teaching came up. No positive responses issued forth. Let's be calm here. Most of us play some form of folk music...right? Someone to show you the way....okay, but after that...hop in your skiff, hoist sail and be off. Cleave to the tradition ye espouse, educate yourself, play with other people. Pick up their bits that work for you and have some freakin' fun. Is that not why most of us are nockin' around with the damned box anyway? If your fun comes from going to summer schools and seminars...I'm down with that.

 

This comes from a reformed voice teacher who made his daily bread off singers aspirations. I've shown some people my version of the way. The ones that had desire took in full or in part whatever my pedegogical flatulence had to offer and did something with it...or not.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Mark Evans

[Bill N]

I would agree with you completely, and add one more thought. I have noticed as I meet more and more concertina players (and a recent demographic survey on this site backs up this observation) that we are an overwhelmingly middle-aged and older lot, with many, if not most of us, coming to the instrument late in life. Most of the really good players of other instruments that I know have been doing it since they were kids.

 

Having said that, I was blown away by the quality of the playing at the "instructors' concert" at the North East Concertina Workshop held by the Button Box this year. In particular, Edel Fox's playing impressed me not just with her speed and accuracy, but also with her expressivness.

 

I had a nice chat with her about young players in Ireland, and she reported that the instrument is very popular, and there is a solid foundation of teachers, venues and competitions to encourage people to improve. I wonder if we'll see a generally higher standard of playing in this generation as they become adults?

Edited May 28, 2009 by Bill N

[tzirtzi]

david_boveri - what you say makes complete sense to me (well, the general comments - much of the anglo-specific technique went over my head as an EC player). The anglo and English concertinas each suffer from specific historically motivated cultural distributions which make virtuosity as it exists for many other instruments much less likely.

 

The anglo has always been associated with the folk music scene, and has remained reasonably popular in this scene ever since its invention. Folk music, as much as I love it, is not massively conducive to virtuoso playing - tunes tend to be comparatively simple, short, repetitive and in only a small number of easy keys. Most folk music is monophonic, homophonic, or heterophonic - there is very little (if any) polyphony. It is also a comparatively small scene. Virtuoso playing is made more likely by a bigger scene with more players and more competition, and more complex and varied music.

 

The EC was associated with classical music, and my impression is that in its early days it very much did have its virtuosos. In the beginning of Regondi's Rudimenti del Concertinista he writes:

 

The Concertina is an Instrument, which possessing the combined qualifications of most other Instruments, can also be made to produce effects which are exclusively its own. Capable of the greatest rapidity of execution, it is nevertheless susceptible of every variety of harmony, of the crescendo, the diminuendo, and the tremelo, the latter having hitherto been confined to Instruments which are played with the bow.

 

- no suggestion of the concertina being a limited instrument there! However, the dramatic fall in the popularity of the EC, in part due to the rise of the electric guitar, has left it with such a small modern following that it too is unlikely to produce many virtuoso players.

 

I learnt the piano by Suzuki method, which involved spending years at the beginning of my learning concentrating mainly on expression, style and technique. Concertina learners don't have access to such goldmines of societal wisdom - most, such as myself, are self taught and so at best are working from printed materials, which can never be quite equivalent to an educated music teacher. It's no surprise that there are fewer concertina virtuosos than in most other instruments, and, at the very least, this lack cannot be argued to evidence a shortfall of the instrument itself.

[Rod]

david_boveri - what you say makes complete sense to me (well, the general comments - much of the anglo-specific technique went over my head as an EC player). The anglo and English concertinas each suffer from specific historically motivated cultural distributions which make virtuosity as it exists for many other instruments much less likely.

 

The anglo has always been associated with the folk music scene, and has remained reasonably popular in this scene ever since its invention. Folk music, as much as I love it, is not massively conducive to virtuoso playing - tunes tend to be comparatively simple, short, repetitive and in only a small number of easy keys. Most folk music is monophonic, homophonic, or heterophonic - there is very little (if any) polyphony. It is also a comparatively small scene. Virtuoso playing is made more likely by a bigger scene with more players and more competition, and more complex and varied music.

 

The EC was associated with classical music, and my impression is that in its early days it very much did have its virtuosos. In the beginning of Regondi's Rudimenti del Concertinista he writes:

 

The Concertina is an Instrument, which possessing the combined qualifications of most other Instruments, can also be made to produce effects which are exclusively its own. Capable of the greatest rapidity of execution, it is nevertheless susceptible of every variety of harmony, of the crescendo, the diminuendo, and the tremelo, the latter having hitherto been confined to Instruments which are played with the bow.

 

- no suggestion of the concertina being a limited instrument there! However, the dramatic fall in the popularity of the EC, in part due to the rise of the electric guitar, has left it with such a small modern following that it too is unlikely to produce many virtuoso players.

 

I learnt the piano by Suzuki method, which involved spending years at the beginning of my learning concentrating mainly on expression, style and technique. Concertina learners don't have access to such goldmines of societal wisdom - most, such as myself, are self taught and so at best are working from printed materials, which can never be quite equivalent to an educated music teacher. It's no surprise that there are fewer concertina virtuosos than in most other instruments, and, at the very least, this lack cannot be argued to evidence a shortfall of the instrument itself.

 

There is no logical reason to suppose that a top quality Concertina in the hands of a sufficiently talented musician is not every bit as legitimate and deserving of respect as any other musical instrument. However there is little doubt that the Concertina continues to be perceived, by those who have not yet fallen for it's undoubted charms, to be a musical instrument unworthy of being taken seriously. If we wish to transform this perceived image, we have to raise our sights, strive a little harder and reduce the quantity of embarrassing videos and recordings which do the instrument's image no favours. On the other hand does it really matter so long as we are all enjoying ourselves and not causing offence in the process ?

[tzirtzi]

There is no logical reason to suppose that a top quality Concertina in the hands of a sufficiently talented musician is not every bit as legitimate and deserving of respect as any other musical instrument. However there is little doubt that the Concertina continues to be perceived, by those who have not yet fallen for it's undoubted charms, to be a musical instrument unworthy of being taken seriously. If we wish to transform this perceived image, we have to raise our sights, strive a little harder and reduce the quantity of embarrassing videos and recordings which do the instrument's image no favours. On the other hand does it really matter so long as we are all enjoying ourselves and not causing offence in the process ?

 

Raising our sights, striving a little harder and reducing the quantity of embarassing videos posted (and I have to admit, this is a crime I'm guilty of..) sounds good - it would indeed help to improve the image of the instrument, which would mean more players, which could only be good. Raising the bar would also mean that more players would be encouraged to practice to a greater level of proficiency, and, personally, I think that would mean enjoying themselves more as well. The more proficient I am playing an instrument, the more enjoyable I find it.

 

Of course, I didn't mean any of this to imply that there's anything wrong a model of musicianship different to my own - quite as you say, as long as it's enjoyable, the details aren't too important!

[Mark Evans]

Hate to call the alarm...but how about prices for Jeffries and other instruments of top quality? Right to the moon they'll go! Ole dodgers like myself would be hard pressed to afford a used, abused hybrid, or worse....a Bastari!

[JimLucas]

Hate to call the alarm...but how about prices for Jeffries and other instruments of top quality? Right to the moon they'll go! Ole dodgers like myself would be hard pressed to afford a used, abused hybrid, or worse....a Bastari!

I have a friend here, an ex-professional flautist, who was disparaging of the violin I loaned her daughter to learn on. Then she realized that she, though forced to learn the rudiments at university, had never before attempted to play a violin that cost less than $10 thousand. (A good friend it was who loaned her the instrument she used for learning the rudiments.)

 

Pity the poor child who can't afford a Stradivarius (does someone here prefer Guarneri or Amati?) to learn on, eh? They'll never become a virtuoso! A Jeffries, by comparison, is quite affordable. (And a Morse is even more so, and a fine instrument not only to learn on, but -- in good hands -- to listen to. )