EC with some Accidentals Reversed

[ragtimer]

Recently a musician friend loaned me a cheap starter English. Two pairs of accidentals are reversed -- the low B and Bb on the RH, and the high F and F# on the LH. Having started to learn EC on a Jack, this really threw me for a loop when I tried a couple tunes on it.

 

I thought it was very rare for any EC player to swap notes around on his box (unlike Anglo accidentals in the 3rd row).

Is this just a factory error, or maybe someone worked on the box and messed it up without intending to? I haven't unscrewed na end to see how the reeds are mounted. Like a Jack/Jackie or "real" concertina, it uses radial action, not parallel.

 

This EC looks a little like a Jackie, but the fretwork is a little fancier. There is no maker's mark or brand of any kind anywhere on it (I wouldn't put my name on it either :-) The buttons are large diameter and more widely spaced, as on a Stagi Hayden Duet. ANd some of the buttons are a little crooked and a couple are binding a bit. So I think I'll stick to the Jack.

--Mike K.

[mi-ul]

Most EC players have more sense than to swap notes around but for a while it turned into almost a hobby for me! I seemed to develop a knack for snapping levers rather than springs - usually at the most inopportune moment.

The quick fix was to whip the end off, swap the two pairs of reeds and put some pvc tape over the broken pad.

 

THe hardest part I found was swapping back to where the notes should be!

 

Mi-ul

[Theo]

Early last year I received a call from an ebay seller who happens to be based nearby. He had a batch of Chinese made English concertinas which had exactly the same notes swapped over. They had been manufactured that way. The problem only came to light because customers were sending them back and complaining that the notes were in the wrong place. I showed their staff how to swap the reeds back to the correct positions and rewax them.

 

I've no idea how the error occurred, but I imagine that there might be hundreds of ECs made like that.

[Dieppe]

Recently a musician friend loaned me a cheap starter English. Two pairs of accidentals are reversed -- the low B and Bb on the RH, and the high F and F# on the LH. Having started to learn EC on a Jack, this really threw me for a loop when I tried a couple tunes on it.

 

I thought it was very rare for any EC player to swap notes around on his box (unlike Anglo accidentals in the 3rd row).

Is this just a factory error, or maybe someone worked on the box and messed it up without intending to? I haven't unscrewed na end to see how the reeds are mounted. Like a Jack/Jackie or "real" concertina, it uses radial action, not parallel.

 

This EC looks a little like a Jackie, but the fretwork is a little fancier. There is no maker's mark or brand of any kind anywhere on it (I wouldn't put my name on it either :-) The buttons are large diameter and more widely spaced, as on a Stagi Hayden Duet. ANd some of the buttons are a little crooked and a couple are binding a bit. So I think I'll stick to the Jack.

--Mike K.

 

 

The black English Concertinas from China, what the Jackie is based on, always seem to have the high F/F# and low B/Bb swapped. Why? Dunno, but I've seen quite a few people on this forum who have reported that. My first EC was one (eBay of course). and swapped, and it really frustrated me because I was learning and I just knew those notes were wrong.

 

And swapping them yourself can cause trouble too... as the reeds are waxed on a frame like an accordion. I suspect that Concertina Connection swaps them and fixes that problem when they get them for Jackie.

 

Personally I wish I could get ahold of someone in China, or wherever they are manufactured, and say "WTF!? Fix these two notes!"

 

Good luck though... just think, your next one will be correct, right?

 

---

Patrick

[SteveS]

I have a flutina (precursor to the melodeon but notes play in the opposite sense) made around 1850 with 2 of the notes going the wrong way (in the sense of a melodeon).

 

Looking at the reed pan (which incidentally has steel reeds in individual brass reed shoes - like traditional reeded 'tinas) - there's no sign of the reeds having been moved around (every reed frame is a different size - clearly handmade - and the slots in the reed pan cut to suit.)

 

Since the box has been well played during its existence, I can only assume that whoever has played it has been playing it with these notes the wrong way around and has never been aware of it.

 

Steve

Edited March 31, 2009 by SteveS

[ragtimer]

Early last year I received a call from an ebay seller who happens to be based nearby. He had a batch of Chinese made English concertinas which had exactly the same notes swapped over. They had been manufactured that way. The problem only came to light because customers were sending them back and complaining that the notes were in the wrong place. I showed their staff how to swap the reeds back to the correct positions and rewax them.

 

I've no idea how the error occurred, but I imagine that there might be hundreds of ECs made like that.

Thanks. Now I know what's going on, and that (1) I'm not crazy and (2) I'm not alone.

We could probably launch a research project here, to figure out how many of these bozos were made. SOmehow I cna think of better ways to spend my Forum time

 

I suspect this 'tina will end up on a bar shelf as decoration. Tho anyone not afraid of wax could swap the reeds back. ANyway, I won't be practicing on this baby. Back to the deep, mellow, and slooooowwww notes of my Jack. --Mike K.

[JimLucas]

I suspect that Concertina Connection swaps them and fixes that problem when they get them for Jackie.

My understanding is that Concertina Connection doesn't need to do any swapping, because they have their own quality control at the factory.

 

The Jackie is not a cheap Chinese junker that's been tweaked, even though the ends look very similar. The construction and design are significantly different, and in particular, the button-note locations, sizes, and spacing match those of standard (Wheatstone, Lachenal, etc.) English concertinas, whereas the cheap ones seem to have only an approximate resemblance.

 

As for swapped notes on the cheapies, Theo's story seems to indicate that somebody in China has twigged to the idea that the locations should be consistent, though without knowing what the proper positions should be. In past years there have been tales that some of these instruments had all the notes in the right place, while others seemed to have individual "random" variations, and not just natural-accidental swaps. Also, the positioning of individual holes/buttons could be significantly offset from their respective locations in the regular array used in "real" English concertinas.

[ragtimer]

I suspect that Concertina Connection swaps them and fixes that problem when they get them for Jackie.

My understanding is that Concertina Connection doesn't need to do any swapping, because they have their own quality control at the factory.

 

The Jackie is not a cheap Chinese junker that's been tweaked, even though the ends look very similar. The construction and design are significantly different, and in particular, the button-note locations, sizes, and spacing match those of standard (Wheatstone, Lachenal, etc.) English concertinas, whereas the cheap ones seem to have only an approximate resemblance.

I had figured as much. Buying CHinese junkers (no relation to the sailing boat) and fixing them up after the fact, woudl be an exercise in frustration and you still wouldn't get a good starter instrument.

As for swapped notes on the cheapies, Theo's story seems to indicate that somebody in China has twigged to the idea that the locations should be consistent, though without knowing what the proper positions should be. In past years there have been tales that some of these instruments had all the notes in the right place, while others seemed to have individual "random" variations, and not just natural-accidental swaps. Also, the positioning of individual holes/buttons could be significantly offset from their respective locations in the regular array used in "real" English concertinas.

You'd think a Chinese maker would get one beat-up Lachenal to use as a prototype. But keep reading ...

 

On the EC I posted about, the accidentals are offset downwards from the naturals, giving a chevron effect sort of like a Crane Duet. Except the LH low C# is offset way upwards. Go figure.

 

A cultural question: The Chinese have been making free-reed shengs for centuries. I wonder whether the postiion of the finger holes and reed pipes are standardized -- or whether each sheng maker does it his way, and players are expected to learn their individual instrument. Could be the latter, And if so, their concertina makers may expect that we would adapt the same way.

 

Or maybe sheng makers are careful to adhere to standards, and the tina makers are just being shoddy. Anyone know?

--Mike K.