question for noel hill system players

[david_boveri]

for noel hill system players, what fingering do you use for the last note (G) of the A part and the first note (e) of the B part for the jig out on the ocean? here are the notes:

 

AGF G3 :||:efe

 

often times i play GBd instead of just G, or some other set of pick up notes. when i play those two notes, i use finger G on the push and first finger e on the pull. i am curious if anyone has ever had noel teach them to do a jump like that, in that tune or any other. i have tried using third finger G, but i think i like the phrasing with first finger. please let me know if he has taught you whatever particular fingerings you may use for these two notes, or if you just do it intuitively.

 

and please, no one tell me that concertina playing is not dogmatic! i am fully aware of this. i just cant think of a single tune off the top of my head which i have learned from noel with those two notes in a row.

 

i dont want to sound rude, but i am not very interested in how people do it who do not use noel's system. i know every system is valid, but i am curious to know whether or not how i do it fits into noels system.

Edited February 1, 2009 by david_boveri

[RP3]

Hi David,

 

I learned that tune by ear so I can't guarantee that I am playing it the way you do. Normally I transition to the B part with pickup notes b & d so I don't normally have the index finger jump problem you are asking about, but I can tell you that Noel has had us do first finger jumps on at least one tune he taught years ago - please don't ask which one cause those gray cells have already died! While it sounds strange, sometimes Noel favors an odd fingering or two because it helps to create the bounce or lift in a tune. As I play Out on the Ocean, there seems to be lots of time between the 3Gs and the efe combination (hence my use of the pickup notes) so I don't see anything gained by a jump, but maybe it works in your rendition.

 

My suggestion would be to listen how it sounds with the first finger jump from the 3Gs and compare that to using the 3rd finger Gs. My hunch is that the former sounds better and Noel probably wouldn't make you stand in a corner for playing it that way!!!

 

See you in August I hope.

 

Best regards,

 

Ross

[david_boveri]

Hi David,

 

I learned that tune by ear so I can't guarantee that I am playing it the way you do. Normally I transition to the B part with pickup notes b & d so I don't normally have the index finger jump problem you are asking about, but I can tell you that Noel has had us do first finger jumps on at least one tune he taught years ago - please don't ask which one cause those gray cells have already died! While it sounds strange, sometimes Noel favors an odd fingering or two because it helps to create the bounce or lift in a tune. As I play Out on the Ocean, there seems to be lots of time between the 3Gs and the efe combination (hence my use of the pickup notes) so I don't see anything gained by a jump, but maybe it works in your rendition.

 

My suggestion would be to listen how it sounds with the first finger jump from the 3Gs and compare that to using the 3rd finger Gs. My hunch is that the former sounds better and Noel probably wouldn't make you stand in a corner for playing it that way!!!

 

See you in August I hope.

 

Best regards,

 

Ross

 

yeah, i was thinking the first finger was better, too. and yeah, i usually use the pick up notes as well, but i am going to be teaching the tune to someone and am thinking of leaving the pick up notes out.

 

hope to see you in august, as well.

Edited February 1, 2009 by david_boveri

[RP3]

As Dick has surmised, Noel does break his own technique (I wouldn't call them rules) from time to time. Sometimes this is to allow chord combinations on a 30 button anglo and other times just to facilitate the playing of the tune. And in class he doesn't force any of us to do the fingering of a tune exactly as he has taught it, but he does encourage us to try his way rather than to just fall back on old, bad habits. That's one of the reasons why I keep going back year-after-year. If memory serves, 2009 will be my 13th year at NHICS.

 

Regards,

 

Ross

[tombilly]

I'l lost!! Where are ye jumping? If you're playing GBd to lead into the second part, surely you would playing the B after the G using the inside row, left hand and then follow with your d & e?? Mind you, for what it's worth I play the B & d on the right hand middle row (sin of sins) and continue on with the e - that's easy and allows for a little double noting on the efe with the E on the left hand.

[Frank Edgley]

DICK: "one of the reasons Noel uses his system,is that you are using your two strongest fingers.this is going to work for a lot of tunes "

 

COMMENT: I think this "strongest fingers" issue has limited validity. Violin players often use their third & fourth fingers, and if fiddlers rarely use their fourth finger, they have to use their third finger. I don't think anyone would say that fiddlers are hampered because they must use their third finger. While using the two strongest fingers may be one strategy, the better strategy may be to strengthen all of your fingers, or you may ultimately find yourself handicapped when some tunes favour their use. Using certain buttons because those because two fingers are stronger does nothing to strengthen the others. Noel told me a few years ago that his little finger is very strong, and he has worked to get it that way. The little finger is necessary for F#s on an anglo concertina anyway, in the same way that the third finger is necessary on a fiddle when playing the note G.

[CaryK]

DICK: "one of the reasons Noel uses his system,is that you are using your two strongest fingers.this is going to work for a lot of tunes "

 

COMMENT: I think this "strongest fingers" issue has limited validity. Violin players often use their third & fourth fingers, and if fiddlers rarely use their fourth finger, they have to use their third finger. I don't think anyone would say that fiddlers are hampered because they must use their third finger. While using the two strongest fingers may be one strategy, the better strategy may be to strengthen all of your fingers, or you may ultimately find yourself handicapped when some tunes favour their use. Using certain buttons because those because two fingers are stronger does nothing to strengthen the others. Noel told me a few years ago that his little finger is very strong, and he has worked to get it that way. The little finger is necessary for F#s on an anglo concertina anyway, in the same way that the third finger is necessary on a fiddle when playing the note G.

 

As Noel teaches cross-row playing he does emphasize what Frank pointed out that all fingers can get involved in the tune as complexity is added. However, the majority of the melody, certainly in G or D on a C/G box (with exception of left hand F#), is carried by the middle and index fingers of each hand, which leaves the ring and little fingers free to work in variations and certain chords and ornaments. He does not just focus on the strongest fingers.

Edited February 1, 2009 by CaryK

[david fabre]

I don't use NH system (and am no sure exactly what it is), but if you really want to stick to it :

 

1/ if you play "GBd" as a transition (which is what I do) there should not be any problem.

2/ if you do not want to play these transition notes, then, since the G is a long note,

I beleive a short pause between this G and the e may be musically welcome. So the

"jump" would not be a problem either.

 

David

[Dana Johnson]

if a player wishes to play chords,the system that gives the greatest opportunity to do so,is to play straight up and down the row,so to play in g play up the g row .

all fingers can get involved in the complexity,whichever system you use .

however, to always play a d push on the g row,regardless of the flow of the music ,when, possibly a d pull on the c row right side would be more musical ., is daft.

all systems of playing must have advantages or disadvantages,and some tunes wil be easier and more musical one way and some easier and more musical a different way.

of course the anglo, when compared to the fiddle,has certain restrictions,occasionally, even with cross rowing,there is no choice of direction,so direction and rhythym is forced on the player,but the anglo has more scope[option direction wise]than a BC accordion.

so what are the advantages of Noel hills system[if it is not a question of using the strongest fingers most of the time].

the disadvantages ,are compared to playing up the g row, less chording .

another disadvantage is, you lose the opportunity to do a b roll [b d b a b]using d pull on c row .

another disadvantage is having to jump with the index finger[for example g to d] .

People keep talking like the Noel Hill system is somehow this rigid thing. He does have a set of notes/ buttons that you play most of the time, and a reasoned way of choosing when to deviate from that set of notes. Along the row players rarely limit themselves to along the row notes either, but generate a generally opposite secondary note choices from Noel's system. Both are consistent with themselves and quite similar in what they allow you to do.

 

However, while the most commonly used chords in along the row playing tend to emphasize the "majorness" of the main keys. The most common chords in Noel's system leave out the thirds for a somewhat different feel to the music. Even then, there is no rule saying you can't play whatever chord you like, and you are expected to have the intelligence to figure out how to adjust the fingering of a tune to accommodate your desired outcome.

 

Other reasons Noel lists for his choice of main notes is that they tend to produce tunes that are more evenly divided between the sides of the instrument and don't have all the melody coming out of one side of the instrument most of the time, and that for the keys of D and G air use is better balanced between the push and pull, so the bellows require less attention.

 

While Noel's little fingers are quite dextrous ( even on the left hand ) they still don't match his first two fingers anymore than anyone else's will. Noel started out playing along the rows on a G/D ( and is still extremely good at it as those who come to class with only a G/D find out ) He switched for reasons he felt were important enough to getting what he wanted out of the instrument to put in the amount of work needed not only to learn a new system, but to work it out to match his musical goals. Only Beginners who he strongly encourages to stick to the basic set of notes, tend to think that they are the only choices. He quickly introduces tunes with the alternate fingerings and tells you why he made the choice.

Dana

[RP3]

Gosh Dick, I truly wonder if there are many concertina players whose playing would be considered "relaxing". Maybe this is cause for a whole new thread, but David's original question focused on whether the NH fingering scheme allowed or encouraged jumps using the same finger. It does -- whether the tune "Out on the Ocean" requires it or not. And he politely commented that he wasn't interested in responses from advocates of other systems/techniques.

 

Before anybody who hasn't attended one of Noel's classes gets too worked up, Noel's teaching is directed at learning how to play the concertina -- primarily using certain cross-row fingerings when appropriate and departing from those patterns also whenever appropriate. I can't ever remember anybody saying this system is better than along the rows -- it is just different. There are advantages and disadvantages to each method. I prefer the method that Noel has taught me and I'm able to apply it to most new tunes that come my way.

 

As for the notes G/B/D, they are easily played cross-row press/pull/press and in most/many cases you don't need or want to use the draw D on the right hand of the C row, but there are ocassional exceptions. This makes a quick, pick-up, triplet when needed and the fingering plus bellows reversals add lots of bounce.

 

So whatever way you play to float your boat -- have at it.

 

Ross Schlabach

[david_boveri]

one of the reasons Noel uses his system,is that you are using your two strongest fingers.this is going to work for a lot of tunes ,but for a few tunes a jump using the same finger will not work , if the effect you want is a legato one.

the same problem occurs on an English ,with jumps of a fifth[it sounds fine for up tempo Northumbrian tunes]but not necessarily right on airs. [cross fingering is then used ]

there are several options.1. strengthen your other fingers[a gripmaster or piano type fingering execrises], and/or, in the anglo`s case , break the rule,and use the note in a different position .

to have a rigid system [imo ]is a nonsense,and unmusical .

if a fiddler was bowing a tune he would not stick rigidly to a bowing system for every reel,each tune is bowed differently,

To always play a note in a certain direction because it enables you to use the strongest finger, is not taking into account the flow of the music ,I am sure Noel breaks his rules ,periodically,for effect.

 

noel constantly breaks his "rules." his system is a system of exceptions. a scale chart can in no way teach you how to play noel's system. you have to learn dozens of tunes from him, and then see how he solves different problems on the concertina.

 

it is not a question if finger dexterity in this tune, it is a question of phrasing. noel's system is based on listening to people play and recreating the phrasing on the pipes, the fiddle, and the flute. his scale is designed to automatically create musically interesting phrases. this is a fact he emphasizes very often in his classes--he will play it in his system, and then in another, and say, "no fiddle player would ever phrase it that way."

 

if he needs to pull a chord, he will instantly change the fingering to fit the chord. if there is a jump, he decides to use an alternate or jump based on the phrasing it will create. so, there are no hard fast rules. sometimes he will teach to jump from first finger A to first finger d, and sometimes he says to use third finger A. it's all based on how it sounds. phrasing. everything else is secondary to noel.

 

to illustrate that he is not dogmatic, at the last camp he taught us to play the concertina reel in the key of C. he did not let us use "his system," as the phrasing would be all wrong. he said that it is an old tune, and that in the key of C it sounds best as the old players used to play it, entirely in the C row, little fingers, vamped chords and all.

 

I'l lost!! Where are ye jumping? If you're playing GBd to lead into the second part, surely you would playing the B after the G using the inside row, left hand and then follow with your d & e?? Mind you, for what it's worth I play the B & d on the right hand middle row (sin of sins) and continue on with the e - that's easy and allows for a little double noting on the efe with the E on the left hand.

 

i dont know where you're lost. you can play the last beat of the first part as either GBd or as G3 (among other things). i am asking about the latter.

 

DICK: "one of the reasons Noel uses his system,is that you are using your two strongest fingers.this is going to work for a lot of tunes "

 

COMMENT: I think this "strongest fingers" issue has limited validity. Violin players often use their third & fourth fingers, and if fiddlers rarely use their fourth finger, they have to use their third finger. I don't think anyone would say that fiddlers are hampered because they must use their third finger. While using the two strongest fingers may be one strategy, the better strategy may be to strengthen all of your fingers, or you may ultimately find yourself handicapped when some tunes favour their use. Using certain buttons because those because two fingers are stronger does nothing to strengthen the others. Noel told me a few years ago that his little finger is very strong, and he has worked to get it that way. The little finger is necessary for F#s on an anglo concertina anyway, in the same way that the third finger is necessary on a fiddle when playing the note G.

 

i agree with you. weak little fingers is not a good thing, because you need those little fingers too. however, to say that they are not weak seems strange. ask any piano player which is their weakest two fingers, and they will tell you! i would indeed say fiddlers are hampered when they need to use their weak fingers.

 

and to further disagree, i would say that fiddlers do use the strongest fingers approach. for example, irish fiddlers use the open A on the A string, rather than using their fourth finger for the A on the G string. they use an open note rather than using a closed note on their weakest fingers. classical musicians will very often (or almost always? i'm not sure) use the other A for one simple reason: they have more control over the note, and can do vibrato.

 

so, yes, i agree with you that you should have strong pinkies, but not that it is folly to have a system based on avoiding them unnecessarily. it is necessary to use your pinky when playing chords or melody on the low end, as well as on the high end. for an example of when using the "strong fingers" does indeed have high validity:

 

why would you use a pinky for high A when you could use your middle finger? that makes little sense, unless you are chosing that for phrasing. william kimber chose to use his middle finger, noel hill does, and in fact i believe most irish players do not use their pinky for high A. i know that many british players do, for chording reasons, and then fall into the habit of it. i dont have a copy of your method book, but frank do you recommend when not chording to use your pinky for high A, or do you use your middle finger?

 

DICK: "one of the reasons Noel uses his system,is that you are using your two strongest fingers.this is going to work for a lot of tunes "

 

COMMENT: I think this "strongest fingers" issue has limited validity. Violin players often use their third & fourth fingers, and if fiddlers rarely use their fourth finger, they have to use their third finger. I don't think anyone would say that fiddlers are hampered because they must use their third finger. While using the two strongest fingers may be one strategy, the better strategy may be to strengthen all of your fingers, or you may ultimately find yourself handicapped when some tunes favour their use. Using certain buttons because those because two fingers are stronger does nothing to strengthen the others. Noel told me a few years ago that his little finger is very strong, and he has worked to get it that way. The little finger is necessary for F#s on an anglo concertina anyway, in the same way that the third finger is necessary on a fiddle when playing the note G.

 

As Noel teaches cross-row playing he does emphasize what Frank pointed out that all fingers can get involved in the tune as complexity is added. However, the majority of the melody, certainly in G or D on a C/G box (with exception of left hand F#), is carried by the middle and index fingers of each hand, which leaves the ring and little fingers free to work in variations and certain chords and ornaments. He does not just focus on the strongest fingers.

if a player wishes to play chords,the system that gives the greatest opportunity to do so,is to play straight up and down the row,so to play in g play up the g row .

all fingers can get involved in the complexity,whichever system you use .

however, to always play a d push on the g row,regardless of the flow of the music ,when, possibly a d pull on the c row right side would be more musical ., is daft.

all systems of playing must have advantages or disadvantages,and some tunes wil be easier and more musical one way and some easier and more musical a different way.

of course the anglo, when compared to the fiddle,has certain restrictions,occasionally, even with cross rowing,there is no choice of direction,so direction and rhythym is forced on the player,but the anglo has more scope[option direction wise]than a BC accordion.

so what are the advantages of Noel hills system[if it is not a question of using the strongest fingers most of the time].

the disadvantages ,are compared to playing up the g row, less chording .

another disadvantage is, you lose the opportunity to do a b roll [b d b a b]using d pull on c row .

another disadvantage is having to jump with the index finger[for example g to d] .

 

noel teaches to use the pull D all the time, for phrasing and chording. the most common situation that i have seen him use it is in the notes Ad^f (^f being fsharp), which makes for good phrasing.

 

noel uses the pull D all the time for ornamentation. in fact, that is the standard ornament. i have seen him use push B ornamented with push B, as well as a full crann on the B on the push.

[david_boveri]

i think there is a common misconception which i have noticed over the years. those who use noels system and have learned from him for many years understand it as that: a system. those who do not understand the system i think make a common error: they confuse the word "system" with "scale chart." yes, he teaches a specific scale and makes new learners adhere to it. yes, when he teaches you he will correct your fingering, because you are in his class to learn to play the concertina as he does. however, his corrections do not fit on the charts all the time. he uses alternate fingerings for phrasing and chording. the more time you spend learning from noel, the more you learn so many exceptions that it seems silly to call it rigid.

 

 

whenever i ask him if i can finger it another way, he either says, "i wouldnt" or "there's nothing wrong with that." i asked him if i could stay straight down the G row in a spot where he does not, and he said, "as long as you dont stay there forever." i have only been going for 4 years to his camp and already he does not correct my fingering when i differ, or make me adhere to his standard. i ask him what he would do because obviously he is a great player, and i absorb everything he teaches me. i learn how he does it because i am there to learn his system, but i play certain notes differently because i am a different person, and he never has a problem with it. when i was new, he would not have let me do that.

 

it is not breaking the system to play it differently than he would.

[Azalin]

I think the main thing here is that Noel Hill has a very, very deep knowledge and understanding of irish music. He's teaching his system, but at the end of the day only people who truly listen and try to understand irish music will know how to use his system the 'best possible way'. He's giving people the basic tools but then it's up for his students to use them wisely.

 

Anyhow, if I were David I'd be a bit irritated, he specifically asked about other people playing Noel Hill's system, he did not ask for wild theories on concertina fingering.

[tombilly]

i dont know where you're lost. you can play the last beat of the first part as either GBd or as G3 (among other things). i am asking about the latter.

 

Ah, I see now! Your original query is not very clearly phrased

[Dana Johnson]

I accept your point about the advantage of the system,to allow even bellows movements .

but there are going to be occasions ,when,the player will choose to use the air button with or without a melody note,because if they didnt the effect could be unmusical,so why not just learn to conrol the air button with a melody note ,and use it all the time .

For a majority of Major key tunes in the Irish music ( by no means for all of them ) if played in the key and on the row of one of the main rows, there tend to be more notes on the press than the draw. While any player that has some experience will be correcting the bellows with the air button automatically, there are many phrases that tend to deplete the bellows and require that corrective measures be taken before the phrase to insure enough air to complete the phrase. In Noel's "system" the frequency and length of these occurrences, where a long string of notes are all in the same direction, is reduced ( not eliminated ), as is the issue of how to maintain the phrasing of the tune through a long string of notes. all in the same direction. For the Noel Hill system folks, the key of A presents the opposite issue tending to have more notes in the draw direction leading to an overly extended bellows with fewer press notes to correct on. For the along the row style that I am familiar with, The primary difference in A ( since Noel already switches to the LH press B for that key ) is with the use of draw D and press E on the right side ( instead of the reverse on the left ) making minimal difference in the end result since we have about the same choices of buttons for that key in either style. You are certainly right that after playing for a while, you learn how to cope with these issues no matter what style you play.

 

The practical difference for experienced players is in the general flavoring of the tunes played in either style, with Along the rows style sounding a little more generally "major key" and Noel's style sounding a little more generally "modal". That is what drew me to Noel's playing and style in the first place. If I preferred the playing of someone else, I'd learn how they did it.

 

I wouldn't tend to listen to most of Noel's playing to relax since it tends toward energy, fun and intensity though there are plenty of forays into the delicate and highly reflective. But that is his character and I kind of like it. When I want to relax, I play instead of listen. Fortunately for us all, there are a great many excellent concertina players out there to listen to with a variety of styles. With the new generation of players coming along the variety will only increase.

Dana

Edited February 3, 2009 by Dana Johnson

[Azalin]

Yeah, Noel's playing isnt appealing to me because it is a bit too 'intense' but you can be certain I'd like to take a workshop with him and would do everything he says. But as a matter of taste I prefer less 'flashy' players. Ah and I apologize, it has nothing to do with the main subject :-)

[david_boveri]

I accept your point about the advantage of the system,to allow even bellows movements .

but there are going to be occasions ,when,the player will choose to use the air button with or without a melody note,because if they didnt the effect could be unmusical,so why not just learn to conrol the air button with a melody note ,and use it all the time .

For a majority of Major key tunes in the Irish music ( by no means for all of them ) if played in the key and on the row of one of the main rows, there tend to be more notes on the press than the draw. While any player that has some experience will be correcting the bellows with the air button automatically, there are many phrases that tend to deplete the bellows and require that corrective measures be taken before the phrase to insure enough air to complete the phrase. In Noel's "system" the frequency and length of these occurrences, where a long string of notes are all in the same direction, is reduced ( not eliminated ), as is the issue of how to maintain the phrasing of the tune through a long string of notes. all in the same direction. For the Noel Hill system folks, the key of A presents the opposite issue tending to have more notes in the draw direction leading to an overly extended bellows with fewer press notes to correct on. For the along the row style that I am familiar with, The primary difference in A ( since Noel already switches to the LH press B for that key ) is with the use of draw D and press E on the right side ( instead of the reverse on the left ) making minimal difference in the end result since we have about the same choices of buttons for that key in either style. You are certainly right that after playing for a while, you learn how to cope with these issues no matter what style you play.

 

The practical difference for experienced players is in the general flavoring of the tunes played in either style, with Along the rows style sounding a little more generally "major key" and Noel's style sounding a little more generally "modal". That is what drew me to Noel's playing and style in the first place. If I preferred the playing of someone else, I'd learn how they did it.

 

I wouldn't tend to listen to most of Noel's playing to relax since it tends toward energy, fun and intensity though there are plenty of forays into the delicate and highly reflective. But that is his character and I kind of like it. When I want to relax, I play instead of listen. Fortunately for us all, there are a great many excellent concertina players out there to listen to with a variety of styles. With the new generation of players coming along the variety will only increase.

Dana

 

i'm going to piggy back on what dana said and say that noel uses the air button ALL the time, dick. he rides it constantly. for me the sound of his concertina gasping for air is an integral part of his style. i remember sometimes lilting a tune he plays and subconsciously adding in forceful gasps for air where noel makes his concertina breathe. i bet noel would disagree with me on that, and have some cheeky remark, but i just cant help that for me it sticks out and adds to the music.

 

he never taught us to do this specifically, but i have started doing it myself because of the benefits of it. one of the reasons noel rides the air button constantly is that some of his concertinas are very leaky. i have never asked him why else he rides the air button, but i myself have found my own reasons for riding the air button. i think it really adds to phrasing. it also helps control dynamics as well. instead of just adjusting pressure, i adjust pressure AND air button, so i can hit a note really hard sometimes and compensate with more air, to give a note a lot of punch yet making it quieter than those around it. of course you need to use it when you anticipate the next phrase is all in one direction, or when you are anticipating or recovering from chords, and sometimes you just need some room on the bellows so you can get the sort of pressure you want.

 

my thumb is permanently in contact with the air button. i actually hook the edge of my nail on the left side on the air button, and it remains there always when i am playing. if i am not constantly letting air in through the air air valve, i am still constantly applying either more or less pressure on the button, but never none.

[david_boveri]

I accept your point about the advantage of the system,to allow even bellows movements .

but there are going to be occasions ,when,the player will choose to use the air button with or without a melody note,because if they didnt the effect could be unmusical,so why not just learn to conrol the air button with a melody note ,and use it all the time .

For a majority of Major key tunes in the Irish music ( by no means for all of them ) if played in the key and on the row of one of the main rows, there tend to be more notes on the press than the draw. While any player that has some experience will be correcting the bellows with the air button automatically, there are many phrases that tend to deplete the bellows and require that corrective measures be taken before the phrase to insure enough air to complete the phrase. In Noel's "system" the frequency and length of these occurrences, where a long string of notes are all in the same direction, is reduced ( not eliminated ), as is the issue of how to maintain the phrasing of the tune through a long string of notes. all in the same direction. For the Noel Hill system folks, the key of A presents the opposite issue tending to have more notes in the draw direction leading to an overly extended bellows with fewer press notes to correct on. For the along the row style that I am familiar with, The primary difference in A ( since Noel already switches to the LH press B for that key ) is with the use of draw D and press E on the right side ( instead of the reverse on the left ) making minimal difference in the end result since we have about the same choices of buttons for that key in either style. You are certainly right that after playing for a while, you learn how to cope with these issues no matter what style you play.

 

The practical difference for experienced players is in the general flavoring of the tunes played in either style, with Along the rows style sounding a little more generally "major key" and Noel's style sounding a little more generally "modal". That is what drew me to Noel's playing and style in the first place. If I preferred the playing of someone else, I'd learn how they did it.

 

I wouldn't tend to listen to most of Noel's playing to relax since it tends toward energy, fun and intensity though there are plenty of forays into the delicate and highly reflective. But that is his character and I kind of like it. When I want to relax, I play instead of listen. Fortunately for us all, there are a great many excellent concertina players out there to listen to with a variety of styles. With the new generation of players coming along the variety will only increase.

Dana

 

i'm going to piggy back on what dana said and say that noel uses the air button ALL the time, dick. he rides it constantly. for me the sound of his concertina gasping for air is an integral part of his style. i remember sometimes lilting a tune he plays and subconsciously adding in forceful gasps for air where noel makes his concertina breathe. i bet noel would disagree with me on that, and have some cheeky remark, but i just cant help that for me it sticks out and adds to the music.

 

he never taught us to do this specifically, but i have started doing it myself because of the benefits of it. one of the reasons noel rides the air button constantly is that some of his concertinas are very leaky. i have never asked him why else he rides the air button, but i myself have found my own reasons for riding the air button. i think it really adds to phrasing. it also helps control dynamics as well. instead of just adjusting pressure, i adjust pressure AND air button, so i can hit a note really hard sometimes and compensate with more air, to give a note a lot of punch yet making it quieter than those around it. of course you need to use it when you anticipate the next phrase is all in one direction, or when you are anticipating or recovering from chords, and sometimes you just need some room on the bellows so you can get the sort of pressure you want.

 

my thumb is permanently in contact with the air button. i actually hook the edge of my nail on the left side on the air button, and it remains there always when i am playing. if i am not constantly letting air in through the air air valve, i am still constantly applying either more or less pressure on the button, but never none.

in case there is any mis understanding,Noel Hill is a very good player

 

sorry if my post showed that you thought otherwise. i always have too much to say, on any subject, and it can look a bit confrontational--beyond the fact that i can be a bit confrontational.