Memory

[LDT]

I don't know if this is just me..but I went away this weekend 3 days (Norwich to see Bellowhead). 3 days of not playing then when I got back I had to relearn a lot...I'd kinda forgotten what to do...wierd. (I tried to fit it in the suitcase....but with my selection of outfits and shoes it just wouldn't fit)

I think I'm gonna have to do a bumper load of practice on saturday.

Edited October 30, 2008 by LDT

[Anglo-Irishman]

I don't know if this is just me..but I went away this weekend 3 days (Norwich to see Bellowhead). 3 days of not playing then when I got back I had to relearn a lot...I'd kinda forgotten what to do...wierd. (I tried to fit it in the suitcase....but with my selection of outfits and shoes it just wouldn't fit)

I think I'm gonna have to do a bumper load of practice on saturday.

 

Be honest with us, LDT - how old are you really?

 

Loss of short-term memory is typical of your Silver Surfer. Perhaps that's why we surf so much - we forget what we read on that site (where was it, now?) yesterday. Or was it the day before? ...

At any rate, tunes we learned 25 years ago are always a safe bet. No bum notes, no omitted verses.

 

Prepare for it NOW!

Cheers,

John

[LDT]

Be honest with us, LDT - how old are you really?

 

22 Really. I just have a habit of forgetting everything....its like it sticks for a short while then if I don't keep reminding myself my brain goes 'you don't need that anymore' and I forget it.

 

In the words of Bart Simpson "Thanks to TV I can't remember what I did 8 minutes ago," lol!

 

Loss of short-term memory is typical of your Silver Surfer. Perhaps that's why we surf so much - we forget what we read on that site (where was it, now?) yesterday. Or was it the day before? ...

I don't remember usefull stuff..just meaningless trivia.

 

At any rate, tunes we learned 25 years ago are always a safe bet. No bum notes, no omitted verses.

 

Prepare for it NOW!

that should be a poster.

[Dave Rogers]

In the words of Bart Simpson "Thanks to TV I can't remember what I did 8 minutes ago," lol!

 

And in the words of Homer Simpson, "Every time I learn something new, it pushes out some of the old stuff."

[LDT]

In the words of Bart Simpson "Thanks to TV I can't remember what I did 8 minutes ago," lol!

 

And in the words of Homer Simpson, "Every time I learn something new, it pushes out some of the old stuff."

That's exactly it. That's why I didn't revise for my GCSE's every time I did I forgot something important.

[pastlifeasakite]

In the words of Bart Simpson "Thanks to TV I can't remember what I did 8 minutes ago," lol!

 

And in the words of Homer Simpson, "Every time I learn something new, it pushes out some of the old stuff."

That's exactly it. That's why I didn't revise for my GCSE's every time I did I forgot something important.

 

its all about muscle memory!(for me atleast) once your fingers are uber-used to playing a tune, they can sorta go on autopilate.

[Alan Day]

I appeared in a play about ten years ago which required me to learn about six foolscap pages of words.This sounds a daunting task, but strangely it gets easier as you progress.I learnt it in the same way as I do music,one sentence at a time leading to one paragraph and onwards,one bar at a time to the end of the A etc. As punishment back to the beginning every time I made a mistake.One paragraph however I had difficulty with.I thought that I would knock it out easily over a weekend,some parts equal to a page of learning I could almost do in a day.This paragraph however, I thought many times I had learnt it,only to try it an hour later and it was gone.I started it over and over again and it would not stick in my brain.I analysed why I was having so much difficulty with it and it was two things one it contained words I had never heard before and the other was it had no rhythm.It took me two weeks to learn just five sentences.

With learning a tune by ear, many like me ,once the tune is in your head and providing it follows a normal pattern it can be played within seconds of hearing it.

Monk's March for example was only played once before it was recorded. Peter also sat down and played it instantly without even playing it through once,both of us remembering a tune that I certainly have not played for 15-20 years. So with time and practice the memory does improve,patterns of play are repeated.This leads on to experimentation of your playing methods ,which then slightly alters the way you play an old tune the next time someone jogs your memory, or you suddenly dredge one up from your brain.

Al

[Mark Evans]

Tunes I've learned by ear and those by the dots store in my memory differently. The ear learned material easily slips away in the first few weeks. After going back over them and playing at session a few times, they are burned on the harddrive. I may not remember the damned name, but if someone starts the tune there I go playing along. The dot-learned tunes...I'll forget, unless I visualize the written score, then it pulls up from one of those files that need to be defraged and I'm off to the races. If I keep them in the playing rotation they remain fresh. If not, I have to set out the score and take a look.

 

Words...another matter I can't figure out. As a young singer I could memorize in Italian, German, French and yes English quickly. By age 40 anything but English took a good deal of routine. Today, I am happy to read from the score, but me noggin' won't retain anything but the English. One other nutty little detail: In opera I would be really in trouble until we blocked the scenes. Then regardless language I was set.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Mark Evans

[LDT]

SO any tips on remembering stuff quickly?

[Hereward]

SO any tips on remembering stuff quickly?

 

NLP or/and hypnosis techniques work.

 

Ian

[Dave Rogers]

SO any tips on remembering stuff quickly?

 

Only learn stuff that you really, really like. If there's a tune that you can't get out of your head, give that one priority. If you haven't got one in your head, listen to as many cds, YouTube videos etc as possible until you have. Then learn that. If you've really learnt it into your fingers, you won't suffer from Homer Simpson Syndrome (Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out).

[Dirge]

I THINK that learning has become easier, so now I know a few tunes the newer ones seem to learn themselves to a degree.

 

I do know I need to keep playing them regularly to keep them up to speed.

[Alan Day]

I think a lot of it has to do with patterns and fingering positions.A tune that is similar and follows the same pattern as one you know is easier to play after a short while.These little tunes that I put together is sometimes created by experimentation with new patterns and recognition of a little tune that is different when it turns up.

Keep at it LDT it gradually gets easier.

Al

[Chris Drinkwater]

I concur with Al and Peter Trimming. Despite Dirge's lack of enthusiasm for playing scales and arpeggios in different keys, I found it very valuable and still do. Folk music is an aural tradition, and learning tunes by ear is, in my opinion, easier to do than learning to read staff notation, or other symbols, and playing from it. Learning by ear, helps you to train your ear to recognise pitch and thus, the sounds different notes make. Playing scales enables you to associate the relevant notes in the scale of a particular key, with the fingering positions on the buttons on your concertina. Gradually, you should be able to identify a particular note with the press of a particular button, and be sure that pressing that particular button will produce the note 'C', for example. By working out scales and playing them regularly, your brain should begin to remember, in conjuction with your fingers, which button to press to obtain the desired note. You may find that certain sequences of notes seem to create a 'shape', or 'pattern' e.g. a triangle, in your fingering on one side of the concertina, which your mind or brain, recognizes as a kind of shape. All this, later on, will assist you in becoming more proficient in finding your way around the instrument and thus more proficient in your playing. People often say that if you know a tune well enough to hum it, you should be able to work out how to play it, once you know which buttons create the right notes. Although I have taught myself to sight read staff notation a bit, I much prefer to learn to play by ear. It gives me independence. To facilitate this, I get hold of a CD with someone playing a tune I would like to learn the melody of, and play the track, ad nauseum, until I can hum it. Jolly tunes, like jigs, are easier to remember in this instance. Then, I have ago at playing along to the recording, a few notes at a time, going back to earlier parts of the tune as necessary, until I feel I can play along to the whole tune. I usually choose tunes that are played slowly (forget your Irish reels played at breakneck speed!), cos they are easier to follow. In the end, it's all about training your ear to identify, to respond, as a musician yourself, to what you're hearing. It may take you a year or more, but it's worth it. Also, you will discover that some tunes have phrases in them that are similar to other tunes, in other words, the notes are the same, and in the same order! And this will make it easier for you to pick up and learn the tune. So, play scales and arpeggios. It may seem boring, but it will help you associate the notes with the fingerings more quickly and hopefully speed up your playing and make you more nimble and able to play a tune that bit faster, should you want to.

 

Chris

[chris]

Hi

Ideally work to read dots and play by ear. The thought that playing by ear gives one independence as Chris just mentioned isn't accurate because you are then reliant on finding someone who has already done the work i.e. learnt to play the tune in order for you to 'hear' the tune. In the same way if you can't find a copy of the written music and can only play from 'the dots' you have problems. Learn both- that's much more like independence.

chris

[LDT]

Also, you will discover that some tunes have phrases in them that are similar to other tunes, in other words, the notes are the same, and in the same order! And this will make it easier for you to pick up and learn the tune. So, play scales and arpeggios. It may seem boring, but it will help you associate the notes with the fingerings more quickly and hopefully speed up your playing and make you more nimble and able to play a tune that bit faster, should you want to.

Oh I can hear when stuff the same or not right...just can't correct or put it into practice. I can't relate the sound to the movement if that makes sense. Plus I would only be able to learn about 10 notes before I would forget.

Edited December 13, 2008 by LDT

[Hereward]

Also, you will discover that some tunes have phrases in them that are similar to other tunes, in other words, the notes are the same, and in the same order! And this will make it easier for you to pick up and learn the tune. So, play scales and arpeggios. It may seem boring, but it will help you associate the notes with the fingerings more quickly and hopefully speed up your playing and make you more nimble and able to play a tune that bit faster, should you want to.

Oh I can hear when stuff the same or not right...just can't correct or put it into practice. I can't relate the sound to the movement if that makes sense. Plus I would only be able to learn about 10 notes before I would forget.

 

I can only learn a few notes at a time too but the next time I can remember them and learn the next set. This eventually should lead to my knowing the whole tune. My approach is to learn one tune I can play well enough on the melodeon as well as practising scales. At the moment I can manage C and G Major to a reasonable standard and half of a tune. Being somewhat contrary I chose a tune in 3/4 time but it seems to be going OK so far.

 

I'm mindful of Pete's comments elsewhere and keep going no matter how I feel about my present playing. I am taking each new challenge as it comes and trying to enjoy the whole process. 'Fake it till you make it' is a watchword I've learnt in another context and it seems to help with music too.

 

Another challenge is to play in front of others. The first time I tried this with the melodeon I found I hadn't a clue where to start, even though I was not aware of being nervous and am well used to singing in front of hundreds of people without any nerves at all. Humans are curious creatures.

 

Ian

[hjcjones]

I think it's all part of the process of learning an instrument. We live in a culture where we tend not to rely too much on our memory - we can write things down, or look up information in books or the internet. So it takes time to train the memory to retain tunes and songs (actually, the memory probably always retains them, the problem is retrieving what's in the memory). The more you do it, the easier it becomes. This is how actors can memorise long speeches, and singers and musicians can remember long songs or pieces of music.

 

Similarly to Al, with a lot of tunes I don't have to remember in detail how to play them, in the sense of remembering all the fingerings. All I need to do is remember how the tune goes - I then have a lot of fingering patterns which over time have become hard-wired and which I can call upon to reproduce the tune. ( Sometimes this catches me out - a tune pops into my head and I start to play it, only to realise half-way through that I usually play it on a different instrument and/or a different key and that the "standard" fingering patterns don't work. Then I have to bluff my way through!)

 

It's different with those musical phrases which can't be played with these standard fingerings - those I do have to think about, practice and memorise, and when I come back to a tune after a long interval I may have to struggle to recall the fingering I'd worked out. But the rest of the tune I can play by ear, I don't have to memorise the fingering for every note. I can concentrate on practising and memorising just the difficult or unusual bits.

 

LDT, at your early stage of learning this probably sounds impossibly difficult and almost Zen-like. But it come down to practice and time. In time, if you work at it, you'll become so familiar with the instrument that you'll have the fingerings for common phrases hard-wired into your brain and will be able to call them up, and even decide between alternative fingerings, almost without thinking. And practice and repetition makes it easier to remember.